Arcade ST vs. Remix

Brian, I have never played you, but I have seen video’s you on YouTube and I have heard quite a bit about you and I gotta say, you have a hell of a Guile.

But I completely disagree about the whole DR giving Bison a huge advantage. Its a really pathetic reversal. If you just Jump-in after Bison is down, DR is useless. Completely. You won’t have the exact same option that you had in ST, but Im pretty certain you can several other effective ways of dealing with the DR. I’ve had people do it to me anyway.

Also, giving Bison another option in a match he loses sounds pretty fair to me.

Are you insinuating that ST Hawk/Gief beat Dic? That’s not very accurate at all, the matches are pretty close, but most certainly in Dictator’s favor.

T hawk yes, but top players seem to think that zangief beats dictator overall.

Just goin from nohoho’s tier list

I think he was reffering to guile vs dic which xblbrian was commenting about.

Where is frame advantage after a throw documented for each character? I’ve never seen it. Or is this just a “feeling”? :wink:

nice post, cynical in all the right places…

American ST sucks. Japanese ST is great.

HD is a change for the better.

Someone on here was quoting game theory ( i think it was python), and in his exposition concerning the flaws in ST he considered inherent imbalanced systemic of the wacked risk/reward scenarois. HD strives to correct that imbalance; pretty much sums up precisely why HD is better.

Some OGs dont like the changes…fucking dinosaurs…but seriously some changes were good, some bad (more along the lines of unecessary) but i see nothing that isn’t has broken or cringe worthy that wasnt present in ST.

  1. From last Augst to this May. Japanese DIC has won more tourny than anyother character.

  2. Evo 2k6 Nelson made to the Finals with ST Dic.

  3. The DR doesn’t make him broken. But it greatly leans make matches heavly in his favor.

First, you are right in that all it does is add a thinking layer to the game. But the risk reward it heavily skewed to Dictator.

Second, very respectfully, by you description of how to stuff the DR shows me that you may not really understand how it is used to escape ticks. ( I SWEAR, I AM NOT FLAMING):tup:

The DR is used to escape tick throws, the “tick” has to happen first, the DR is used to escape the throw. So the drill from Sim, Jumping short from Blanka, the jumping attack from Chun all must hit or force DIC into block stun. Then and only then after the “tick” does DIC use the DR. It makes the throw whiff and the normal attack the corresponds to that throw comes out while DIC flies into the air.

The way you “stuff” the DR is to anticipate the DR after the ‘tick’ and use the appropriate counter, i.e. up flame for Sim if DIC is in the corner. However, if Sim is wrong, he is left open for a WORLD of hurt. So you see, the DR is Win- Win- Win no matter what for DIC against the Tick-throw. Here either escapes the throw trap, is hit out DR (which still ultimately gets him out of a throw loop), or does a shit load of damage to the opponent for guessing wrong in trying to stuff the DR.

Trapping him was the only was to get an advantage on DIC. The new DR, allows him to escape with for free or for a small price. Either way he escapes and an opponent never really gets to press their advantage.

this is the worst theory fighter I’ve ever heard. I was going to bring out my flame thrower to try and nip it out, but I trust you to be smart enough to figure it out on your own.

I’ll point out the words for you:

JUMP ATTACK
DR
UNDERSTAND

bonus word: IRONY

This might work with Sim because the drills can hit low, but for Blanka, and Chun, and pretty much any other character, the jumping attacks are overhead class, meaning Dictator if he wants to preserve charge for Devil’s Hand he needs to block low. Overheads will beat low block, meaning an opponent doesn’t have to go into tick then throw, the opponent’s overhead jumping attack will land and then they can combo into possibly a knockdown or even a dizzy.

If you land an overhead on a crouching opponent you should be going for the combo and not tick throwing anyways. I fail to see how Dictator’s new Devil’s Hand helps if an opponent just goes straight into combo which they should be doing anyways after a successful jump in.

Like Blanka lands a jumping short and you block high then he knows you can’t use Devil’s Reverse because you have no downward charge. However if you charge down to avoid a tick after jumping short then you are going to eat jumping short. The Blanka player should see this and then go straight into a combo.

Maybe I’m missing something here?

So the overpowered Bison strategy to escape a splash tick is to eat the jump attack voluntarily, hope to the Street fighter gods that he doesn’t just combo you, do the DR, then hope you don’t punish the DR on its way down? (You can’t block high, then do the DR, since it needs a down charge).

You can easily punish the DR on reaction even if your throw whiffs, because it’s so damn slow. Honda can headbutt it even if he whiffs a low jab instead of the ochio, he has like a whole second to do it. Zangief can block it, then be right next to Dic to threaten a SPD, or he can lariat it from a greater distance. Anyone with a DP can DP it. I’m sure you can find answers that other characters can do on reaction to the DR. It’s slow and predictable!

Really, eating the jump attack for free, then Devil Reversing doesn’t seem that attractive or overpowered at all. You eat damage from the jump attack, risk eating a big combo, then get a big risk of eating damage again from the DR punish even if you don’t get comboed. Devil’s Reverse is practically the least reliable move in the game, and doubly so when your opponent knows it’s coming - it doesn’t propel him to any particularly impressive heights of domination.

Fatboy, I respect you and like that you are always polite and all, but you honestly seem to be talking about things that you haven’t seen yourself. There’s no need to theory fight when you can just fight, and observe the actual results. And the actual results I’ve seen when fighting against Bison is that his reversal Devil’s Reverse is just not very good.

…wha? If Dictator blocks any jump-in from Chun, Blanka, Honda, nearly anyone, he loses the DR charge. If he wants to risk losing and take the jump-in, then do the DR input hoping his opponent will tick instead of doing a combo, then I don’t see any other scenerio where this can happen.

Point is, Blanka’s J.LK kills Dictator. Chun’s kick kill Dictator, and even without the throw loop, Honda can still shut down Dictator hard. Thelo said it absolutely perfectly; DR gives Dictator probably a 5% chance to get out of a tick.

Doesn’t the DR go through jump ins if its done late enough?

Truth right here. When a Dictator player is DR’ing in the corner, it’s only to get meter to Knee Press Nightmare out. Anyone good will be keeping you in there until you get the meter/you die, whichever comes first.

This is a bold bold claim.

So in AE, a different game.

It helps ever so slightly, But you still get hit by jump attacks, It’s not a game breaker.

Is it?

Click this link

Once clicked, scroll down to the bottem of the page and look for the pink colum.

You … click this link.

Here’s the [media=youtube]DEtCWmlud7c&feature=channel_page"[/media] of what you’re referring to.

Here is last years.

Explore Richard Leakey

Pretty interesting he is doing slightly better than ryu. Maybe you should look back farther than the bast 6 months, imo. Or maybe at every evo with super turbo.

Also, that graph doesn’t breakdown first place, 2nd, etc. Weak.

Thanks for the link, I thought Giga-MSX uploaded it, but I didn’t have time to find it.

Oh lord help me I’m posting in this stupid thread.

fatboy - That list wasn’t Japan only there’s a little bit of (regular) ST from europe and north america in there. It was mostly Japan though yeah and in fact mostly Kanto (Tokyo area.) Ko-hatsu (Kansai) has been having biweekly events lately so some of those guys (kusumondo, tsuji, gunze, etc.) are gaining ground. Anyway I plan on breaking that shit down in more detail when I get to the two year mark this september.

ganelon - Randomness isn’t only throw vs. throw it happens on any simultaneous action. In mame if you turn on easy special move cheats and then bind 2p’s, say, dragon punch to the same button as 1p’s throw then go to throw you’ll get what seems to be (I’ve only played with it a little bit) 50% throws 50% dps.

The only other randomness I’m aware of comes from one frame attacks blankas balls, o.ken and o.ryu’s air hk, HF zangief quick lariat, WW blanka vertical jump fierce. Those moves are randomly unblockable when done point blank.