I believe that Ken was supposed to be the DP character and Ryu was supposed to be the fireball character, maybe Akuma can be the throw character? add a demon flip (which he has in later games) and then RD when he has meter, maybe RD will be enough, we’ll have to see.
To me the preference is which game has the most interesting cast in high level play, or which has the most interesting cast for internet discussions and casual play.
Am I the only person alive who actually uses classic sprites and music? I cant be.
My thoughts.
Dictator
First of all, I don’t agree that Dictator’s change is a mindless get out of jail free card. I think it’s a great change. It adds an option for escape, but it’s vulnerable to prediction. I think the changes to Dictator were perfect.
Chun Li
I agree with most of what NKI says about chun li. My proposed change list would have been:
I would have kept neckbreaker and super. If you must change, lower some damage on the super, but don’t mess up its juggling. Overall she is hurt for no good reason. She was not an overpowered character, her level in ST was perfect. The new air SBKs are terrible, they are actually her biggest nerf. She’s still a decent character, though. I feel like two of her worst matchups (imho – yes I know most ppl think she beats Sim in ST but I don’t feel that way) Sim and O Sagat got a lot better, and now her worst matchup is Ryu/Ken, which is still worse. But I feel that making Lightning legs easier to do was a very big improvement. I think button mashing moves are terrible design, they are very hard to do. I can only think of a handful of american chun li players that could do the LL stuff on demand, and it’s a stupid test of dexterity that serves no purpose. I like her more now just because of the easier inputs. Huge change for me.
Claw
I think the changes to Claw were fine, although I would have let him keep the d/b store charge on his flip kick.
Hawk
I’m not a big fan of R. Hawk. My changelist would have been
I feel Hawk is now a very different character. Part of his appeal to me was his all or nothing character. I feel Hawk should have stayed as a low tier character with scary potential. That’s his appeal.
Ryu
I’m going to say it. I think Ryu is the strongest character in the game. His fake FB is amazing, I had no idea how powerful it would be. I think it’s one of the best moves in the game. But I think he’s fine as is. He’s very good now, which is fine.
Honda
I don’t understand why Honda is the only character to not get a whiff on a special grab. Honda’s is way, way more problematic that Hawk’s. Stored throw AND no whiff??? Pick one, fine. Why does he get both and poor Hawk gets a whiff?
**
Boxer**
Boxer seems fine
**
Fei, Cammy**
Whatever. I don’t play either of them, only against them. Cammy is scarier now. Fei’s about the same level of not scary he always was. I think Fei to me is the least threatening of any character.
engine
This might have been out of scope for HDR, but I would have pushed for a complete removal of all mashing of any kind.
I agree with everything you posted, especially with regards to Chun Li. The most damning things in my mind are the new SBK and the vulnerability in lighting legs. Its ludicrous that moves like Claw’s roll just go right through the legs and hit. Not only does it fuck with her ground game it just looks totally stupid. Losing the ability to neutral jump rh is also a blow in the nads. I feel like I’m using a gimmick character when I use HDR Chun. I just about lose my mind when I lose matches I shouldn’t be losing with this half baked character. I suppose I just need to get used to the changes since HDR is the “new” game.
I get the feeling we’re not on the same page, so let me clarify. This is the situation I’m talking about:
There is no guessing game, and it’s unpunishable. That’s why I say it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card.
The person doing the fireball trap can just AA if they’re expecting Dictator to DR out. Its happened to me. If Dic sits there and they miss their DP though… well, it’ll suck to be them.
Well it is done on reaction to the fireball being thrown so the only one that could would be Ryu if he did fake fireball.
There is simply not going to be a remix 2.0 unless somebody decides to hack the original ST rom. So any discussion of what changes should have been seem pretty pointless to me.
What is done is done.
The discussion now should move toward which game is better, Classic mode or Remix mode. Arcade and Dreamcast ST are simply not going to be used for large tournaments.
I vote we play HDR for a little while longer to test it. It’s amazing to me how much ST evolved in the last few years, let’s give HDR a little more time and see how it works out.
My personal predictions for the future:
-HDR’s popularity will wane and the same people who were always playing SF2 will be left plus a few new guys.
-HDR will turn out to be more broken than ST in some unforseen way. The balance that ST has enjoyed was very rare among fighting games and probably very fragile. The odds of any change not being more broken than original are low.
-In a few years the newness of HDR will wear off and it will be on equal standing as a tournament game vs. classic mode. People who have played HDR might begin to play around with classic ST and decide they like it better.
My personal opinion is that they are two different equally valid games. ST might just barely edge out HDR gameplay wise, but HDR is new!. I’d like to play it for a while til I get sick enough of it to go back to ST for a while, and then switch again.
Damnit, I want HF too.
Why did we need a full 15 frames to a shoryuken. The motion isn’t that hard and if I played ST long enough I would develop the 8 frame srk anyways.
As far as one of NKI’s comments goes, What motions NKI would have you made for Claw to have the ability to choose which wall his super launches off of?
Would it have been:
:d: :db: :l: :ub: or :u: or :uf:
Would it have been like guile’s:
:d: :df: :r: :uf: or :u: or :ub:
As far as Claw’s super motion not being changed, it probably has to do with the fact that you can do the motion differently for what wall you’d like to bound off of. It also seems less likely that someone would err in execution on a super no one is pressured to attempt to reversal with, unlike Guile’s. There are plenty of inconsistencies between the versions, but this one I can understand.
There may not ever be an HD Remix 2.0, but if there’s a consensus that can be reached, it never hurts to let that be heard or known. There are plenty of things in HDR that bug me or don’t make as much sense in practice as in theory, but I still absolutely love playing the game and discussing these things along with strategy. If there’s any chance, however remote, that the game can evolve and change for the better over time, it’s worth the effort. Even if it takes another fifteen years, heh. Until then? HD Remix all the way, baby.
At the very least, I hope the game gets polished regarding actual quirks like controller settings and slowdown in and between matches. The first patch seemed to help somewhat; it’s just a question of cost-effectiveness now.
Actually they can’t, because they are stuck in their fireball stance, because Dic did the Devil’s Reverse on reaction to a fireball. (This is easy to do, and fake fireball will not work.)
Use the same old command (charge D/B, D/F, D, D/B, B, U/B+kick) to go to your wall, use Guile’s new super command to go to your opponent’s wall.
I believe just charge D/B,D/F,U/B+kick will do for your own wall.
It’s good a thing that Sirlin didn’t just leave HDR alone and only update the graphics and netcode as originally planned… otherwise, we’d be arguing as to why the hell he didn’t fix all the crap that’s plagued ST for 15 years. This thread is unbelievable.
That’s why the best option would have been for him to not touch the game at all.
Well, I don’t hear MVC2 players complaining that they’re getting the same great game they’ve always loved (minus game-breaking bugs)…
Can you imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if they nerfed the tourney viable characters in any way?
Because most of them are saying that the game is dead anyway, like ST players pre-SFHD.
Are you telling me i shouldn’t get knocked down in ST? Well duhoy!
And that the punishment for ONE such knockdown is a throw loop i cannot escape?! I mean shit man…i have been playing ST for 2 years hardcore now, i’m no newbie.
If i see a move coming from 4 hits away, i should be able to get out of it.
wtf. Other chars can Reversal out, but i use Dic a lot.
This is exactly why R Bison needed his invincible DR.
That’s the whole point of ST Dictator, he’s the most all-or-nothing character in the game, and I think that’s a pretty fun and interesting character design. Don’t get knocked down. Seriously.
But in any case, who says you can’t escape it? Bison’s throw range is bigger than Ken’s, so you can always beat his throw if you expect him to throw. If you expect him to do dragon punch or sweep or something, well, better block. If you have super, super beats all of that.
In your opinion. Who would buy that?
Certainly not all the people that gave up on ST, that have come back in droves to play HDR.
MvC 2 gamers are nuts. They’ll sit and pick the same damn characters and mirrior match a whole fucking tournament.
Huh? :wtf: Are you sure you’re a top player with that logic?
If so i’d like to play you. Catch me on GGPO.
…granted, you did say you are a Mediocre Dic at best.
I’ll take it for what it is.
The Dic can do a DV on reaction if they WANT to.
…But why cant the Ryu do a fake fireball and then DP or jumping anti air?
Or any other person trapping Bison?