Random or not… I bet its pretty darn accurate.
I’ll back you up if you back me up. :clown:
your point being…?
HDR is not ST. HDR replaced ST. You’re proving my point that the interest in old ST has diminished. Now it’s no longer ever going to be an evo game - effectively making it dead. Because of this new version, the old version is dead. You saying that HDR IS POPULAR WHILE ST IS NOT is pretty much just saying what I’m saying - this new version is out, and it has replaced the old game. Therefore, because of this game’s existence, ST’s popularity has dropped and is no longer the SF2 we play competitively.
How can the changes “make sense” if you didn’t even play ST?
ha you guys are old 
Post Hoc Fallacy right there.
You assume that HDR made the ST popularity go down. Where is the proof in that?
It is very possible that a good portion of HDR’s fan base never was into ST in the first place.
End!? I damn well jumped over those numbers a while ago. I’ll be 37 in Sept! Yikes!
The problem with the DP is the vertical range, meaning that it doesn’t hit low to the ground. It has great range when using it to pass through fireballs and things like that, but against low kicks it’s pretty anemic.
You can only do a blocked dive then immediately DP through a fireball so many times before the opponent catches on and learns to duck.
What?!?! You’re underaged? Who am I supposed to fantasize about now?
I love it when you talk dirty.
He’s legal in Sweden :lovin:
Way to throw off the curve Decoy!
Hawk was balanced for low level play. Beginner level play. There is no other way to say this but it’s true. Just look at the dive.
People who simply picked up Hawk in ST and would dive at the worst times and get punished repeatedly complained that the dive was terrible because they didn’t understand how to properly use it. They thought Hawk’s dive was always punishable. Meanwhile Hawk’s dive was safe against a good part of the cast, and often safe even more if you hit the dive low, and it scored a knockdown on hit. To reward low level players who didn’t know when to dive properly, the dive was changed to be safe (though that’s been proven wrong in the Hawk thread), but the reward was heavily decreased to compensate for less risk.
First off Zangief’s jump was 5 frames which isn’t such a massive difference between a 3 frame jump window. And if Zangief’s command throws were so much easier why did he receive new motion changes as well? Is there anyone here who thinks that ST Hawk’s throws were incredibly hard to do in ST?
The way Sirlin writes about T.Hawk you would think Hawk players only ever threw from a neutral standing position. There isn’t a single mention of ticking into throw…otherwise known as the most common and best way to get a command throw with ST Hawk. If you tick into throw, like 90+% of throw setups from ST Hawk are, the whole ‘3 frame jump’ scenario has no application.
There are very rare times where a standing neutral throw from Hawk is necessary and if you are trying one you have six chances because even if you negative edge you’ll get an empty jump so you might as well go for all six. Six chances in a three frame window is actually less strict than the single frame reversal window so by that logic HDR should have a larger reversal window to keep in line with the execution barrier of command throws.
Read the first quote but replace “this loop” with “Dictator’s touch of death” and replace “very difficult” with “moderately difficult” and then try to rationalize why Hawk’s throw loop was taken out but every single character has a touch of death combo still including some combos being easier than others.
The sad part about Hawk is he didn’t need so many buffs, at least to get out of the basement, he just didn’t need the insane levels of unnecessary nerfs that were thrown at him.
Hawk is better without a whiff and he’s better with the old dive. Reverting those changes is a bigger boost than anything Hawk players are asking for. Hawk with the old dive (and combined possibly the new dive as well) and negative edge option select for his command throw is a simple solution to helping give him an increase in offensive potential. Stuff like fooling around with his dragon punch or giving low roundhouse block chip damage should take a backseat to getting R.Hawk behaving more like O.Hawk.
There’s no way R.Hawk is worse than N.Hawk or O.Hawk. I already said the problem was you not Hawk, and Kuroppi agreed. Both of us use Hawk and do FINE. Maybe it might not sound like much from me, but considering how good Kuroppi is, I’ll take his word on nearly anything. He would be the first person to say something if there was a serious problem. Yeah there are some things I would change about Hawk, but for the most part, this is what matters to me; Im still winning. Hell I’m winning even more than I was in ST with Hawk (I used N.Hawk for the record).
Same thing with Fei. Here everyone is complaining about how he sucks, yet Jumpsuit and Wes, two of the best Fei’s in the nation, said that overall he’s better.
SRK. Serious business.
There’s a difference between saying someone outright sucks and that they may have had questionable changes that weren’t necessary. Most of the statements I’ve seen posted here regarding specific characters aren’t “omg tey suck,” but “despite the welcome changes, I feel that losing an aspect of my character’s gameplay wasn’t justified very well.” Too often it’s phrased in the form of outright bitching though, so hey :wgrin: It would be nice to address the specifics directly instead of repeating the same “well he’s better so get over it” response.
Out of curiosity, JigglyNorris, what tweaking would you do to T.Hawk? (Maybe belongs in the other thread, heh.)
I felt exactly like VF4 and gridman did until I actually talked to Sirlin in a civil conversation. I got off on the wrong foot with him, but we both gave each other another chance. Once I saw things Sirlin’s way, my game really improved. Guile and Honda, while still hard fights, have become much more bearable. Once you accept your characters changes, your game will improve.
As for Hawks changes, slightly tweaked priority on the DP, and old dive on KKK.
You’re preaching to the choir, man! Overall I greatly enjoy HD Remix, and play mostly Chun, T.Hawk, Fei Long, and Blanka. Besides Chun, I like the remixed versions much better. That doesn’t reconcile some feelings I share with a few others here about why certain changes to characters were specifically done…but if nothing ever changed and this is what we have for all time, I’d say it’s pretty successful.
Regarding T.Hawk…your ideas are golden, seriously. Best of both worlds on dive, and the ability to actually do something reliable on offense against Honda would be nice. I’d definitely prefer if his reversal bug was fixed as well, and I’d LOVE to have those few extra pixels of range on standing roundhouse that N.Hawk had (especially in the Guile matchup). If they don’t happen? Well darn, I’ll relieve some stress by driving some skulls into the turf :lol: Realistic walk-up SPDs are beautiful things.
Now I’m going to go play Remix Honda with the no-store oicho dip switch on. At least it’s one change we’re actually in control of :wgrin:
Not to start anything, but isn’t wanting the old dive back in hawk’s arsenal kind of the point of some of grid’s argument. You say you’d put it in, so it definitely means something to hawk players right?
Gridman was saying that the old Dive was superior to the new Dive in nearly every way, which I disagree with. Overall, the new Dive is better in HDR. If the old Dive was in HDR, It would be good against Ryu, Ken, Cammy, arguably DeeJay, Chun, Sagat, and Zangief. That’s slightly less than what the new Dive is good against, and even so, the new Dive is still useful against those opponents.
On a side note, the old Dive would be garbage on Guile.
Having both the old and new dives for Hawk is an interesting idea. There is no doubt that the new dive is far superior for pressure and attacking because it forces a player to react to your dive rather than just block and punish you. But a smart player would still use the new dive the majority of the time and only use the old dive when he knew a guaranteed hit was there (e.g. you jump up and Ryu throws a fireball) or if you’re in total desperation mode.