I am a HUGE fan of Nohoho, but that “winningest” stat he posted is unfortunately far too abstract in its components to be able to work with in the respect you are both doing.
We need to factor in:
how many of each character were played
the skill quality of each tournament tallied
what format was each played in (team, muti-round, etc.)
etc.
It would be better to extract the individual match results from each team tourney.
I’m not saying the numbers (when sorted out) won’t support your claim on Dictator, I am saying that this particular indicator (“winningest”) is problematic stat to work off of.
For the record, based on YuuVega/Taira performance with Dictator, I feel Dictator SHOULD be regarded as top tier. (at least in team tournaments)
I think you should set results formatted tiering (as opposed to “peer review” tiering) based on the tournament performances of the absolute BEST (top 1-3)
players with each character, otherwise you are making an amateur tier list.
I have a massive archive of ST tournament video links. (some up on streetfighterdojo.com, most not there yet)
Most of it broken down into individual matches and their results by round.
Given time, I could isolate matches between the top 1-2 players (Komoda=Blanka, YuuVega/Taira=Dictator, ShootingD/Daigo=Ryu, Yaya=Sagat, etc.) with each character in a tournament setting, and determine what the win/loss results bear out.
But that is a LOT of work.
So why don’t I work on getting those links up on the dojo and someone else can calculate this.
Fake moves seem like a bad idea in general. One of the things you try to do as a fireballer is mix up when you throw fireballs and also mix in a variety of other attacks to disguise the animation. Get your opponent thinking about a lot of things and spread their concentration thin. That’s one of the major strategies in fighting games.
Trying to distinguish a fireball from a low jab is a concentration game. Trying to distinguish a fireball from a fake fireball is a reflex test - not the same thing.
Faking out your opponent has always been a part of fighting games, in a way it seems redundant and hamfisted to turn fakes into dedicated moves.
Rekkas are better, super is better, input motions are easier, Anti-air CW gets a free flame kick for big damage. CW -> Flame Kick is pretty much safe and great for pressure.
I agree that the stats are not 100% solid. Whether or not Dic is truly the #1 most winningest character against high-level comp, I dunno, but I think we can all agree that Dic wins a lot, even against high-level comp.
Not really, CW’s have less block stun meaning u can’t lockdown while the flamekick has terrible lag on recovery…it is suicide to attempt a pressue string with it. AA CW is situational since most good players will never jump anyways, and LK CW is only good when ur close but getting close is the problem…and it’s even worst here then in turbo.
For those who do not like their character changes and continue to be pessamistic about it rather than actually work with what they have, I have an amazing (apparently unheard of) solution!
Id gladly go back to ST. No complaints here but no ONE wants to play original ST online (XBL, i know ggpo has people but my converter has bad input lag) and offline, people just stick with HDR.
The entire point of the thread is comparing the two versions, and expressing why you feel one is better than the other. That’s going to go hand-in-hand with criticism in either direction. Having the ability to play something else doesn’t mean HDR (or ST for that matter) is absolved of all criticism, and feeling that a character’s changes harm them, either in functionality or flavor, doesn’t imply that those same players aren’t working with what they have. Besides that, there are plenty of people who fully believe that HDR is a darn good game, and well worth playing for the competition that is there, even if they don’t agree with all of the changes. In light of all that, it doesn’t make much sense to approach the opinions in the thread with a “you don’t have to play it” mentality.
Most of the posts I’ve seen by you are genuinely good, logical points. Don’t get caught up in snark; it’s overly abrasive, and will make people less likely to listen when you have something worth listening to.
maybe u should post the video as the only change done to ryu was the addition of the “fake fireball” They didn’t change anything regarding notation for him. And I certainly have never head of the “dumbed down DP motion” unless you are thinking of SF4. d/f, d/f PUNCH
This is all I am trying to say… please re-read my post.
He may not be the BEST character in the game. But, he is DAMN good and can win major events. He is not in the bottom 1/3 of the characters… Deos he really belong in the same teir as Blanka, Gief, Cammy, Fie, and Hawk?
Due to the constant 15 frame dp window u can dp with f,d,df,f+p everytime, if u do that motion(walk forward hado) u have to pause on the foward b4 pressing punch or do f,db,d,df,f+p. Its a simple execution barrier that is easy to get past.
I believe he may have fallen victim to f,d+mk,df,f+p and got srk instead of hado.
that is, exactly mid tier, and the US ones puts him just below Honda (US players and US player-weighted). It is interesting to note that among the listed top US players + Professor Jones, Sirlin rated Dictator the highest. NH2 has also pointed out that, in terms of worst matchups, he is number 5, together with Ryu, being his worst matchup 3-7 against Chun. He has a bunch of 3.5-6.5’s, tough.
Just to clarify, I still like Remix plenty and always enter it at tournaments. I think ST is better but not by THAT much. And apparently Remix currently has the 2nd most signups of any game at Evo, so it’s definitely done its part in bringing new players to classic SF.
I just think of what Remix could have been (read: the best SF ever) and am a bit disappointed, more than anything else.
Remix isn’t perfect but it has easier motions, fixes bugs st had like sim not having reversal super, and is overall at least a little more balanced.
These are all facts, so isn’t hdr the undisputed superior game as far as being suited for tournaments goes? I don’t how anyone can argue against facts. Now if you have more fun with st then hdr that’s an entirely different matter but it’s sad to see well known players on srk dispute that hdr is WORSE then st
Edit: Like I said before anyone who thinks bison was above midtier in vst show me the US major placings or better yet the amount of majors he’s won.
edit2: I think a lot of people who prefer st over hdr are using very weak arguments and are confusing how much fun the game is with what makes it better suited for tournaments and overall viability.
