Unless you jumpin is perfectly timed and placed, the is a strong chance the DR will come out as a reversal and be hit out of the air and flip backwards. If you are jumping in, what does dictator have to lose?
Generally speaking, Dic should option select the DR to end in U/B on a jump-in. If greatly mistimes it, he’s combo’ed, if he doen’t get the reversal he blocks the jump in and gets tick thrown,.
if he gets the reversal, the DR comes out and he’s hit airborne he escapes with minimal damage agaisnt many character and lose~ 10-15% of his life, which is better than any of the options above. Play Atonalisim, try the various tick throw strategies you have with your “main” character, and see how many set ups he actaully wingles away from with a minimal loss to life.
I played Atonalsim of line on CB’s ST cab in AZ last novemeber. I won a bit more than half our matches. In HDR, he wins the majority of our matches, soley due to the new DR and it ability to wiggle away, even if just wiggles way sometimes.
Here is the fourth option for dictator. I was going to edit my post, but ppl have aready replied.
This is if you DR, get hit and have some super meter. This is what you get when you play Giga and other good DICs. This is not theroy fighter. DIC had optoins to deal with TICK throws all along. Just b/c you did now about them didn’t mean they weren’t there.
It is difficult, but experts player like Giga use this to win all the time.
If you are playing a DIC that doesnot employ that in some form into their game play, they are not a great dictator. The may be good, really good, but not great.
Sagat j.roundhouse low forward tiger shot still dizzies 99% of the time
chun li can jump fierce/roundhouse s.fierce fierce kikoken and it will definitely dizzy, in fact it will probably dizzy off the first two hits
cammy can do jump fierce/roundhouse s.strong low forward cannon drill
blanka’s deep jump fierce low forward blanka ball dizzies more often than not. don’t even need the low forward x 2 combo
you mean like when people do safe jumps? if safe jumps are a legitimate strategy to beat uppercuts (which as we know are WAY better than DR), doing the same safe jump vs. dic to combo/kill him whether he does dr or not is also a legitimate strategy.
or perhaps your inability to learn and adjust to a new game? cry me a river fatboy you’re being a scrub. “boohoo it’s not my fault I’m losing, it’s the games” is exactly what this sounds like.
Dic’s were doing the same strategy in ST. Oh shit I’m getting rushed down time to hold up back + strong to gtfo… nothing new here. badly timed jump ins will leave an air reeling dic at 10% of his health, good ones will kill him. This is the exact same shit only now it’s a whole 2 frames tighter.
you even said yourself that a perfectly timed and spaced jump in will beat the strategy. great so do it and quit complaining.
I am not shit talking. You spent much of your last post post attacking me. Don’t flame when I ask you, how you have gained your game-play knowledge. When you could have just told me. You accused me of theory fighter, when I genuinely made statements from hours and hours of game play experience from playing really good players.
I am not making excuses when it comes to losing. Adrian, beats me fair an square. **He’s a phenomenal & godly player. ** You took my post all wrong, and that may have been my fault in the way I wrote it. The only way I could compete in the match was using the throw traps. Sim no longer has the to tools to press like he did ST. Lack of Noogie range and easier throw escapes with the DR reduces Sims threat to do heavy amounts of damage in short time. Sim can’t use tools that are not longer there. Dic just needs one small opening and it toast for Sim.
Edit: I wrote all this other BS that I just deleted while in lame INTERNET forum rage mode, but realized it wasn’t worth it. I just wanted to makesure that you all know I wasn’t shit talking if it was taken that way. I genuinely want to know where you gained such game play experience accuse me of TF’ing. You can twist what ever I wrote into theory fighter any way you want. I know it is real becasue I have faced it many times. I’ve said what I wanted to say. Take it or leave it.
After reading this post, I think I might have played you on Scoreboard somewhat recently NKI. I normally pick E.Honda and feel pretty good about a Bison match-up, but when I played you, you would win in the way you described. Really well-played.
Have you tried j.HK/MK, crHP xx MGU 4 hits with deejay? It’s a lethal combo, needs no setup, it dizzies, and you don’t need a crossup for it to work as far as i can remember. If it’s not a TOD it’s prety damn close, i can remember it doing at least 50% damage when i got all 6 hits with it several times.
I don’t think it’s a ToD in HDR though. It no longer stuns on its own, whereas in ST the same combo would stun, and then could be used again for the knockout. It’s still a very damaging combo though, I’ll agree.
On the contrary, if you don’t predict it, it’s completely unpunishable when done with up/towards. Dic flies all the way to the other end of the screen and lands right away.
Well, we’re talking about two different scenarios. I was referring to situations like Zangief tags Dic with a cr.RH near the corner. In ST, he could do walk-up meaty st.Short, SPD, guaranteed. But now Dic has the option of DR after the st.Short.
Your Honda flowchart is pretty accurate, and I agree that Dic still has a rough time with jumping ticks. I’m not saying that DR is Dictator’s get-out-of-jail-free card, but it gives him a viable option against ground ticks where he previously had only terrible options, such as getting hit to build meter.
None of those guarantees that the round is over. Dic’s TOD does.
Ah, the DR to the opposite wall. I’ll admit that I’ve seen that escape variant pretty rarely. Then yes, I guess it does allow him a chance to escape, after eating the initial jumping attack, and makes him more resilient to ground-based ticks.
I guess it’s time to change our strategy and use more jumping ticks.
I just tested it out, cause it’s been a while since i used it. It’s not a guaranteed stun on everyone, but it’ll stun about 75% of the time on most (not all) of the cast, and will take about 60% damage, so repeat & it’s game over. If you use the j.HK or a j.FP instead of the crossup j.MK to start it off you probably won’t even get all 4 hits of the MGU to connect before they’re stunned. Depending on which character the opponent is they’ll be on the deck after 1 or 2 hits. Cancelling off the crouching fierce punch instead of a jab like most people use gives it huge dizzy points.
If you want to go all “combo video” on it you can add in an extra linked jab in too, but you need a crossup jump. Crossup mk, then low jab, then link that to a crouching fierce, and then cancel the crouching fierce into 4 hits of the MGU for a 7 hit stun combo. Kinda tricky but really great to pull off.
Man, i’d forgoten how much fun deejay’s combos were…
Crouching fierce is only cancellable in time to connect the MGU on standing opponents. Also, that last combo isn’t guaranteed dizzy. In fact, none of those are.
I know, that’s why i posted how it’s NOT guaranteed after i tested it out again. Je110 was correct.
I don’t know how i could have been any clearer??
NKI is correct, while lots of characters can hurt you really badly if they get a jump in, and stun you in lots of cases, bison is probably the only one who’s got a guaranteed dizzy 50% plus, non super, non crossup repeatable combo. He’s the only character where if you get a single jump in you can win the round right there without any possibility of your opponent getting out.
The dic situation sounds like a wishlist issue instead of a ST/HDR issue, in the next patch just make it so his jumpin combo damage/dizzy is slightly worse, to compensate for his small chance of escaping the corner.
Noooo…Leave him the fuck alone, he’s perfect as he is now, no further nerfs or buffs needed. If you take away his TOD/dizzy combo you get rid of the biggest reason anybody would have to fear him, and that would change how the whole cast approach their matchups with him, positioning against him, everything. He’d slide further down the rankings, which he doesn’t need. Like someone posted recently, a classic dictator is “mess up once and it’s a combo video”. What else is there to be afraid of with him if he hasn’t got that? He’s still totally pwnable in defence.
And to go back to the devil’s reverse, i just want to say (again) that it ISN’T a get out of jail free card. I use it a lot, and i’m good at using it, because i’ve put a lot of time into studying it, so i know how it works. The hitboxes were changed on the lower part of it to give his legs/midsection invulnerability to fireball traps for a split second, but he’s still got hitboxes and is totally vulnerable from above to PROPERLY timed splashes, well timed crossups, psychic dragon punches, upkicks, t/hawk bullshit, etc. If a bison is using DR on you to escape stuff like that then your timing is off or you’re not anticipating properly. If you get to the point that you’re expecting it, same as you might expect say a wakeup jab dragon punch from ken or whoever, it’s totally punishable. JigglyNorris is an expert at doing this with his t,hawk vs bison, because they’re both his mains and he knows the matchup really well. I’ve lost count of the amount of times i’ve been rising hawked out of a devil’s reverse by him while i was trying to reversal out of his corner ticks.
Remixed DR just gives bison some semblance of a chance to get out of the corner that results in a guessing game that could go either way, instead of a guaranteed win for the guy applying the pressure like it used to. There’s still risk in using it, it’s not a guaranteed escape. It’s the same principle as a wakeup mixup, if you anticipate/guess you can still bait & punish it easily if you know what to do, and it can turn out well or badly for either of you depending on whether the guess goes your way or not.