I think they may improve this AA game, thus the decrease in damage.
I am hoping so, I wouldn’t mind a dmg nerf to his AA normals if he had a good and reliable AA to use.
Because all of Bison’s anti air buttons are for different spacing and timing.
Yeah. Cr. FP: If you have enough time to make a cup of tea before the opponent’s jump in will hit you, hit this button.
Nah, I could care less if they nerf Bison’s anti-air if they just make his offense better. More damage, mixups, whatever. Just give us something!
Not quite…
It’s actually 80 for one hitbox, 110 for the other.
You may very will hit someone on the ground with your s.rh, but hit with the 80 damage hitbox. This will likely be the case for anyone who isn’t point blank/jabbing range.
It is an unfortunate and unwarranted nerf. I’ve had my s.rh focused quite a few times, getting me crumpled or dash thrown.
We do have two chances of hope though:
- Capcom said that they aren’t going into all the changes, and that there will be more to find out when we get the game
and
- The changes for Bison we currently know about are from the Arcadia ‘leaked’ list, which have already shown a few discrepancies from what the Dev blog released about Sagat, Dan, Dudley and Zangief.
Bison should have a resurrection ultra like Gill’s Super Art from 3S amirite
St.hk is safe from dash throw except from Chun, maybe Abel. Actually I’m pretty sure you can backdash before Abel gets a throw off.
S.HK’s ranges are 1.40 and 1.88
1.40 is still a good range. 110dmg kicks coming!
I do use U2 but as long as you can still pull out U2 as they are getting up then I don’t care about his command change. The roundhouse damage at footsies range I don’t like at all… Super w/ projectile immunity is something that might be useful in my game style.
If rh will now work as anti-air without trading then and only then will the nerf to rh be justified. Otherwise, it is bullshit because 70-80% of hit with rh come at the tip thus rh will be nerf nearly 35% from vanilla. it will also make any combos that end in rh do much less damage because it ends at the tip as well.
EXPC NEEDS to be unthrowable!
I doubt the hitbox will be changed, but we’ll see. st.lk->st.hk links should actually do more damage since you’ll still be in range of the 110 damage hitbox. The link that is affected is cr.mp, st.hk, but that whiffs at long distance/crouchers where you should be using cr.mp, st.mk anyway.
Really the point is to stop Bison from abusing st.hk to zone out a lot of characters. I’m pretty confident that’s why they got rid of Seth’s j.hp because it was just breaking the match against gief, and they couldn’t find a way to balance it.
Yeah that one throwable ground frame is so lame. That’s the reason why it loses to Fuerte’s U2, and it’s the reason why it’ll lose against demon if timed properly. It’s possible to get air thrown out of it, but I don’t have really have a problem with that.
Yeah if the part of the hitbox that hits with that link the cr.mp, st.rh one anyways isn’t the 90 dmg deal anyways, I am not sure simply because of the pushback on a cr.mp hit. Not all to sure the dmg is so much greater with the st.lk links to be all that much better in comparison to what we are losing.
What about the BS of a good chunk of that cast who, with little or no fear of punishment, can jump all over Bison? This change as it stands now only makes this far, far worse. Trading one extreme for another is crappy balancing.
Agreed, at least air throwing it takes skill or a whole lot of luck.
It’s more like they wanted to get away from matchups revolving around one button, and shift the fights to be more up close.
Even though Bison can be free up close, those mixups still take some thought/skill to carry out. Bison is guessing against counterhit/throw/dp pressure. When people are losing to st.hk, it’s because those characters have no answer for it except duck.
If you notice, a lot of the character changes revolve around nerfing abusable zoning stuff that certain characters had absolutely no answer to (Balrog’s far s.lp, Vega’s cosmic heel, Blanka Ball on block, Honda headbutt, Chun’s pokes, Ryu’s c.mk, escape tatsu, Ibuki’s Kunai, Seth’s j.hp, Seth’s U1, Rose’s U2), and buffing stuff that gives more ways to get in or gives more options up close (EX Ducking, EX Run, frame advantage on close normals, new combos, all of Makoto’s changes lol)
Bison’s st.hk changes fit with this theme perfectly.
Really it seems like they’re trying to make the game more offensive. Isn’t that what everybody wanted?
What the hell characters had no answer for Vega df + HK? Shit’s -1 from knee deep, takes forever to start up, and Vega’s fastest move is fucking throw. Wish I coulda gotten ME some of those matchups…
Characters with no range? Vega uses it from far away, your only option is to duck it otherwise he’s completely safe.
Kinda sounds like Bison’s roundhouse actually.
Every time I pulled out Vega I ALWAYS fought characters with range. (Course this was back when Orlando had a small army of Chuns.) I only started getting free matchups when I switched back to Bison. :-/
Besides, Bison’s roundhouse is 6 frames, compared to Cosmic Heel’s, uh…14. Being locked down/out by Bison’s roundhouse is a distinct possibility because the move is one of the fastest heavy normals in the game. Being locked down by Cosmic Heel…what the fuck are you doing?
Vega’s df.hk is not the best example to compare it to. -1 for one means its still unpunishable by almost everything and despite its slow startup it has greater range than Bisons st.hk. If anything it could be compared a little better but not completely accurately to Bison’s slide except df.hk for vega is safe on block while Bison’s slide most certainly isn’t.
I’m not saying Cosmic Heel was overpowered, but it is a good poke with good range and is + on block when spaced correctly. It even leads to mixup afterwards.
If Vega outranges you, and you have no reversals, what do you do about it?
I don’t play all the characters well enough to know if everyone has an answer for it, but Capcom has clearly decided to nerf things that encourage runaway or keep people out.
I don’t know jack about cosmic heel, but Bison’s roundhouse is easily focused.
The nerf is pretty to tip of s hk is pretty dumb. Now people will just jump in all day at Bison. Its easy to trade with s .hk and now Bison will always lose out. If anything the damage shouldve just been buffed to 110 for all the hitboxes so at least people can just brainless jump in due to low risk(which it is now).
Now if Bison is doing a block string/frame trap people can just hold up back or even up forward because even if Bison does the c.lk,
s. hk frame trap (which I do all the time because so many people just try to jump out of Bison’s offense) and hits them its shit damage.
Maybe they boosted the chip dmg/dmg of lk scissors. That would even it out but I doubt they did.
Um, just a random question (from a non Bison): would it be nice if he gain his SFII jump back (even if as a super-jump)? And would that compensate in a way some of his nerfs? (i’m not following his news closely; just assuming he got some nerfs)