Stubby buttons?
Cammy,Chun-Li,Zangief,Birdie,Karin,Nash,Vega and Dhalsim have a problem with this argument.
Iām pretty sick of hearing this argument. You can dislike SFV without being some sort of reactionary SF4 fanboy.
Case in point, SFVās buttons are stubby in comparison to ALL other iterations of SF, not just SF4.
Not so much stubby buttons but itās so easy to run away full screen or if your close enough you get in that range where itās a guessing game when they will jump let alone not knowing which side. You work your way in then the fast jump arc beats ground normals and few characters with good reactable anti airs can deal with this. The camera zoom really messes up the spacing closer than mid range.
It sounds like Iām pulling this out of my butt but there is something off with the flow of the game where normals can be jumped on so easily if they are not designated anti air buttons. It feels stubby because the range you can react to jumps is the range you want to be pressing buttons so you can bait that jump. But then the camera zooms in and all the sudden your being crossed up.
Why does Ryu crouch strong anti air so well? Forget st jab. Look at crouch strong itās ridiculous.
I think stubby normals are part of how Capcom thought they could increase the ācommitmentā factor of the game they seem to be focusing on. You have to get in close and put yourself at risk of jumps or getting counter hit.
To me, that is just very flawed thinking for a SF game. Committing to risky stuff was never what made SF interesting. Instead it was the complex neutral game where both characters remain grounded for the majority of the match, with jumps as an ever-present threat but also generally easy to counter. The focus on footsies was the one thing that really stood out about SF whereas most other games introduced all sorts of aerial attack maneuvers.
Thatās the real problem with SFV for me. They tried to streamline the game and go back to basics, but they got the basics all wrong.
Youāre the guy who complained about top players not being able to excel in this game and complaining about Infiltration about winning every major in the same post.
Iām convinced spliffy is a robot that just speed dials anti SFV stuff.
It isnāt on speed dial and this is the ānot feeling the hype threadā not the āomg SF5 is teh awesomezā thread. I bought the game, iām unhappy with how bad it is, it remains uninstalled on my PC and iād like to see them take it in another direction in 2017. Acting like SF5 characters moves have great range when you can visibly see them clipping through character models while still not making actual contact with them is laughable. If I started spamming up endless other threads daily iād see your point but with my average of 8 posts a month I think thatās pretty unlikely. Who even cares who the top players are in this game, Infil wins all the majors in this broken, boring, incomplete mess, and the sales are confirmed piss poor, thatās why they are charging Fanboys $10 for a DLC stage. If you donāt like seeing criticism about the game maybe you should not be reading a thread thatās about people ānot feeling the hypeā and stick with threads that are about people that love this mess of a game. Sales are bad, tons of people have recently said itās boring, the player numbers for the game are not going up, and people still continue to shill the game even in threads that are for players that are unhappy with it. Game is bad man and this thread is for people that arenāt happy with it.
I think I missed your point, can you please reiterate once again why sfv is bad?
Yes, your statements are definitely to be taken without a grain of salt.
Have you decided whether you think top players canāt excel at this game since itās so simple or whether youāre sick of Infiltration winning everything?
Im still convinced that post was pre assembled before I posted.
what āargumentā do you mean? That SFV is a new game and should be treated as such (more or less)?
I really meant what I said, I dont get the stubby buttons argument.
What defines stubby? I look at karin, chun, vega, balrog, gief, sim (lol), birdie, necalliā¦ every single on of them has at least one far reaching move.
So again, what exactly is stubby? I dont remember SF4 (or any other sf for that matter) having normals that outreach the distance of approx. one dash.
So:
a button with the range of one dash +(-) āXā is what most would consider a poke button.
Comparing SF4 and SF5, the same rule applies, most characters have a poke that is around as much distance as one dash (some more, some less, intertwined with longer and shorter start up frames).
The only thing thatās changed is that most of those buttons arent special cancelable anymore, forcing players to āget closerā to use their cancelable buttons. Maybe thatās why it feels āstubbyā, because you cant special cancel those long range buttons? Is it that?
I honestly dont know. Someone explain this āstubbyā argument to me please.
Top fighting game players will excel at a new FG regardless of how simple or complicated it is. If Divekick had prize pools as big as SFV, you would see Infil and friends dominating that game too due to their superior fundamentals and mind games. That doesnāt mean that Divekick is a complicated game, or a fun one.
A more complicated game allows for more interesting and expressive gameplay, at the expense of a higher skill floor. It doesnāt necessarily provide a higher skill cap.
Your argument for why stubby normals are good was that āSFV isnāt SF4.ā That says nothing about whether stubby normals are actually good for gameplay. Itās just stating the obvious.
I guess what really frustrates me is this notion that anyone who dislikes SFV must be a delusional SF4 fanboy who only complains about SFV because itās too honest of a game for them. Itās a very convenient way of shutting down criticism, since āSF4ā is still somewhat of a dirty word around here, and nobody wants to be stuck with defending it. But in reality I think a return to SF4 is the LAST thing most of us want.
The best way to see how stubby normals are in this game is to compare them to their counterparts in other games. Ryu or Vegaās c.MK for instance. In many cases moves that appear to have decent range are still quite stubby due to their awful hitboxes. It seems rare for a move to hit at the tip in this game.
Im probably gonna start playing Alpha 2 on fightcade again. Then just press cmp a lot with Rose so people arenāt sure if theyāre playing 5 or not.
I belive so too, if thats the same dood,than is he also running around in the steamforums.
He basicly always appears if he sees a reason to hate on SFV for whatever reasons.
I mean he basicly repeads on and the same post over and over and nobody understand him even in the slightest.
I start to compareā¦finished.
New game new normals,what normals they had in previous games is completly unimportant,since this is not the former game.
Otherwise, I would have to cry that Cammy didnāt had a 3f +10 st.hp in SFIV while she had one in CVS2 what was her previous literation.
What I want to say,you canāt just compare one character in a game and then say his normals are stubby,because they got changed in the other game.
Itās first of all a different game,then itās a different focus,you have to keep in mind how the tools got balanced etc. etc. CATCHPHRASE!
Also itās common in Capcom games that a hit/hurtbox never matches the animation. Or do I have to remind you of Vanilla Sagats st.hp that hit like 2m in front of his fist.
Thereās a big difference between having a single (slow, risky) poke combined with a bunch of short range normals (SFV norm), and having a few buttons intended for zoning plus longer range normals overall (previous games). Especially when the slower walk speed in SFV is considered.
The range that footsies happens becomes closer, which increases jump opportunities. The winning strategy is then to distract your opponent and try for jumps, which are low risk/high reward until the opponent has meter.
"Top fighting game players will excel at a new FG regardless of how simple or complicated it is. If Divekick had prize pools as big as SFV, you would see Infil and friends dominating that game too due to their superior fundamentals and mind games. That doesnāt mean that Divekick is a complicated game, or a** fun one. **
A more complicated game allows for more interesting and expressive gameplay, at the expense of a higher skill floor. It doesnāt necessarily provide a higher skill cap."
Are you guys the fun deciders? This game is more fun to me than SF4 and Iām just glad Iāll be able to spend the next 5+ years playing it rather than whining about it on a board or pretending to play Guilty Gear.
Edit: I have no idea how quoting works here.
Iām limiting my SFV complaints to this thread since thatās its purpose.
Regarding the game being fun, thatās the only thing that made me drop the game. Itās a legit competitive game, but the way it works is completely illogical to me and itās mind numbing for me to play. I do think it could be fixed, they just need to adjust a whole bunch of things, which would be difficult to balance so I doubt it will happen.
I realize that the moves are intentionally shorter than they were in previous games. The fact that it was intentional doesnāt mean it was a good choice.
Iām not even talking about balance hereā¦ the game is very well balanced; I just dislike the fact that it funnels you into a particular playstyle. And the stubby normals definitely play a part in that (see Uroboricās post above since he explained this better than Iām able to).
I never claimed to decide what other people find fun. If you enjoy SFV thatās great; I honestly wish I could say the same. My question is why you feel compelled to hop into a thread dedicated to venting about the gameās problems just to tell us how much fun you are having with it yourselfā¦ almost as if you are the one who has trouble accepting opinions that differ from your own? 
Guess Iāll go back to pretending to play Guilty Gear now. Because itās like, totally inconceivable that there are actually people out there who play non-Capcom games. Thatās just crazy talk.