You are correct about Ryu’s skill ceiling being higher than everyone else’s. And yes Zangief’s V-Skill is garbage.
Not trying to be rude but I can’t understand what you are trying to say. Can you explain it clearer?
I’m on mobile, so I can’t see who agreed and disagreed, but can we get some actual counter arguments or at least discussion from the people who disagree.
If this were a real life debate you would not just say I disagree and leave it at that.
Based on how the game is delayed having a good anti air jab kinda cheats the system of having an immediate answer to most jump ins. So you’ll have moves and sequences that you set up based on conditioning the opponent.
you counter what their intentions were based on gathering information more so because of how you can’t react visually to a lot of what is happening. But a jab anti air kinda cheats it cus u can just mash it without any kind of actual timing since it comes out so fast.
The jump in from the opponent is a huge risk they must take based on the limited movement options that are available because of delay. Unless zangief is in your face you can run away from him all day. It’s the same with anyone with higher mobility options compared to there opponent. Nash gets dash back and boom for free. Sure u can punish it if you guess preemptively but that guess is a huge risk for something that is so easy for him to do and that has so much control and weight during a match.
For example tick throws
The opponent sets up a tick throw and it’s not like you see the throw animation come out but your reacting to the position and timing of where they set up the throw during the match. So hopefully when you do counter it you can cover as many options as possible. Either commit to tech itself or you jump out, or you have an invincible reversal. But all those options are more of a commitment than the actual tick throw itself.
I don’t like that you can’t see these individual throw attempts when masked behind a jab that comes out so fast your still blocking on screen as they are throwing you. It doesn’t sync up visually so you have to go by timings based on what you observe from the opponent during the entire match. It’s almost like you gotta lose first and then readjust to the pattern the opponent has even if it’s random, the choices and thought process has a certain game plan.
Sorry for not explaining as well it just feels off to play the game where you have to over commit to stop or beat simple situations that are made more difficult because of the massive delay.
Many agree that “Super Street Fighter II Turbo” is the epitome of Street Fighter with its level of depth in tactics and strategies, but if you watch a high-level match between Ryu and Zangief you will just witness about fifty fireballs and perhaps three or four SPDs, and supposedly SFV is a bland, robotic and “on rails” fighter in comparison.
Take Vega in “SSFIIT” versus just about anybody, and you will see him land a knock-down and just loop his wall-dives for as long as he can.
Take Guile or Chun or Cammy or Alex or anyone; they can all do nearly exactly what they did in “ST” or “3S”, in addition to the new SFV-mechanics; V-reversal, V-skill and V-trigger.
V-reversal can allow you to turn the tables on your opponent, but it can also be baited; V-skill is something you may want to utilize more if you’ve already used up a V-reversal thus delaying your V-trigger; V-trigger can be activated on its own thereby influencing a reaction from your opponent, or it can be cancelled from one of your normal-moves allowing for it to both or either combo or safe-guard yourself from a punishing. Additionally you have the Critical-art which is the only thing able to chip-kill an opponent, and so meter management becomes more important than it ever has been in SF. Moreover, you have all of these mechanics at play with each other where you evaluate what to drain resources from based on your other resources or just simply your plan for the rest of the round, and behind all of this you have a well balanced neutral-game where somebody like Zangief or Abel doesn’t have a better zoning and footsies game than Gouken 
That’s not exclusive for this game. A well timed tick trhow is not something you react to, but something you predict. Only games like Tekken and Soul Calibur have throws with a huge tech window so you can react to them. Sure, 8 frame lag make tick throwing much easier to perform, but even if they reduce the lag to 4 frames or something that will still be something you will must predict most of time.
Capcom did say they desire to rectify the 8-frame thing – it’s too bad it was 8-frames to begin with, but at least it’s supposedly being rectified in their first overhaul come 2017.
I agree with you both on this one…
You never Bionic Armed a nigga?
This game is great. The people bashing the game should just stop complaining and move on to another fighting game.
Fightcade is a free alternative, let’s you play a huge variety of games. Maybe that will satisfy some people’s fighting game itch since 5 isn’t up to snuff for them.
Yeah you had old school ST/SF3/CVS2/A3 players doing the same thing to SFIV players. It’s cool, it shows that the game is popular competitively. Popular shit gets hated on.
Most street fighters have had decent amount of resources to think about. You said anyone can do nearly exactly what they did in previous iterations? Balanced neutral/footsies? Balrog outside of his standing HP and crouching MP fights like a T-Rex. Which is nothing like previous iterations. Mike Ross claimed he had Dudley’s offense… with Balrog’s defense (yet he lost his best anti air/reversal headbutt, armor on most moves, his only armor move doesn’t even activate immediately and normals suck balls now)… Vega, Chun Li, Karin all laugh at Balrog’s footsies. Characters were specialists; Did Gouken move around like Abel and do crazy mix-ups?
Karin lost her command grab, air grab, 2 different rekka’s (now only one and limited use) with more options, one had low profile, high/low counter (Geese Howard style) and got a dash into Tenko (which could already be done via her old Kyaku) and Orochi.
Fireball game has been nerfed heavily. So characters cannot do what they did in ST, Alpha, 3s and 4. Why did Dieminion drop Guile? Zoning is almost non existent in this game, as is reactionary/defensive play-style. Game is so pressure/damage heavy and little else. Most characters don’t have a reversal (many characters feel quite defenseless and god forbid some v-reversals being very slow and having worse recovery), no Kara throws . Characters in general move slower, have worse range, less special moves and all proximity normals are gone. Some v-skills are just old special moves… V-trigger’s aren’t nearly as exciting as Killer instincts instinct mode; They are far more creative and fun to play with.
Most characters cannot combo and add in a special for chip damage now since they are unsafe. I guess grey damage plays a part as to why.
Critical arts are now basically easier to land ultras and always guarantee full damage (cinematic), I-frames and all combo able. Previous iterations had multiple supers or the option to choose between (4 had super and ultra.) And a lot of those varied from utility, situational (risk/reward or certain requirements to use), damage, etc… Critical arts are really bland in regards to strategy now.
How often do you see someone go for chip kill? It’s useless unless you’re about to lose and have no option but to blow your super bar. How many did we see in tournaments? Chip kills have had plenty of hype comebacks. Not being able to take any chip damage, yet somehow make a comeback.
I’ve been playing SFV quite a bit more lately and i’m enjoying it. But I hate how reserved and streamlined it can feel. Capcom seems to be playing really safe and avoiding some wild stuff and having to balance it. Despite that we have R.Mika 
This iteration has a lot of 50/50 style guessing
The only people who i have seen that say this are oldheads that refused to move on and noobies that want to appeal to the oldschool and try to sound legit TBH.
I am sure that most fans of X brand of SF will tell you that their prefered sf game is the epitome of depth of the series.
LMAO, most people here complain because they want the game to be better, there is valid criticism to make about the game, and wanting this stuff to be fixed to improve the experience is on their rights, specially after expending $60+ on the game.
I think that most of the people here complaining are dissapointed with the game more than hating it.
You have some fair points (maybe 15-20%), but things like
and
and
make me unmotivated. Sorry, bro’…
Neither of those hit harder than Balrog, so it’s balance that Balrog doesn’t have an as easy time landing those hits.
Vega doesn’t play like his previous or earliest iterations either, and thank Lord the merciful for that…
SF5 is only popular competitively because of the large amount of money behind it. Casuals have largely avoided the game and in case you haven’t checked the news recently Capcom’s sales and profit’s have been released, they are down 25% this quarter, as SF5 under performed for them. Their stock is also taking a serious beating. Can Capcom really afford to keep tossing money into a pro tour with massively shrinking profits and an under performing product? The outrageously overpriced DLC seems to indicate they cannot and are now trying to ring out the few customers they have with one of their floundering flagship titles to cover the costs of the pro tour and keep the game afloat.
SF5 didn’t sell well and casual gamers didn’t like it, why would they? It has no actual casual 1 player content content at all. If they really thought casual gamers would be happy to pay $60 for no actual content outside of nauseating one sided online rollbacks, they got a sobering answer. People are not hating on the game because it’s competitive due to pro tour dollars they are hating on it because it simply is not good to the majority gamers. Now you can take that however you want it, but that is the business reality beyond all the other delusion being espoused by fanboys that treat anything with a SF label as “terrific”.
Where exactly are you getting your “business insider info” from?
Why was SFIV popular on its own merits but not SFV? What “content” did IV have over V?
Like many others I regretted it at first but then after evo I picked it up again after being inspired by the matches I watched and hey bingo.
Still needs Arcade mode though
The discussion was about depth, lack of and I made some points on it. Maybe you don’t like Vega, but many characters and the game in general is all about less is more. (Karin lost so much for almost nothing, and isn’t the unique character she use to be.) Your answer to everything was basically and… Such a great argument.
Supers are far less interesting and leave a lot to be desired strategically. When Hakan had ultra, you couldn’t jump at him. (outside of crumple the only way to land U2 was as an anti air, but it was the best. Then you had his super, choosing between high/low profile and projectile/throw invulnerability.) U1 one making you think twice about using risky combos, frame traps, drops, range etc… There was a lot more risk/reward and situational use and the change in pacing and play-style when those were available. Now supers (aka easy ultras) all have invincible frames, can be combo-ed into, guarantee full contact/cinematic when landed (unlike previous where supers had different animations depending on how they landed and sacrificing damage) making them much easier to use.
Chip kill makes meter more important than ever? So Fadc, Red Fadc (offensive/defensive use), having more ultra bar giving more damage and many ultras require meter to land. And Supers/Ultras could also be used for chip kills… Plenty of meter management.
You play the game almost purely offensive (the way they want you to play) and take out being able to play the game the way you want. People often talk about how defensive SF4 is. But the game could be played far more offensively than SFV ever could.
Crush counter for whiffed specials is pretty cool. But when your throwing what is probably your best poke for that range and they happen to have a cc attack and just happen to press the button at the same time. It’s pure luck and rewards in high damage. Then you’ve got the heavy guessing game due to a limit of options. The game rewards a lot of luck.
Proximity normals were really cool. And added more potential in your offensive game.
Karin is very close to Balrog’s damage. Without V-trigger she has way better and consistent damage. All the while having a much much easier time landing it. Balrog’s best damage combo (not counting TAP) with 2 bars for example is already having Trigger activated and jump Hard - crouch hp, ex dash grand blow, second hit (thanks to trigger) into kkb buffalo swing and ex dash straight. Adding anymore normals will net you nearly 100 dmg less. Damage scaling doesn’t work well with his v-trigger
You seem to like less is more. I’ve never once said I hated SFV. But I find it often disappointing. Some things didn’t need to go. Infiltration’s play style hasn’t changed much. He has been playing SFV the same way since beta. Where is all this undiscovered tech?
SFV has sold about half as well as SFIV in the same amount of time. You can blame that on a lot of factors though. Also content? More characters and arcade mode.
Good question! “Just give the game time to evolve, bro”… I saw early on that SFV was simply too restrictive on the player to grow the way SFIV did over the years, and so far I haven’t been wrong.
I couldn’t agree more with everything else you said too. I want to reply more in depth when I get home, but very good post.
When did that happen?
Thanks. I haven’t lost faith. Most of sf’s first iteration has been a little shaky or experimental. Sf’s have all been quite different. They’ve however, ‘mostly’ improved on the sequels per series. It’s sad when you have so much history to work with, yet this is the end result. Sometimes It feels like they keep things out, just so they can add it in later to spice things up or they are afraid of balance and playing it safe.
I believe this game will definitely develop over time, whether it be via discovery or new mechanics added, but for now we haven’t seen much change. Some people here claim how useless things were and hence why they were taken out, apparently for the better. I’ve said it before, I’m not even a fan of vsing turtles but i respect the play-style.
You didn’t exactly respond directly to me either, though… I gave some examples and you just found your own examples.
The only meaningful thing Karin lost as far as I know is her counters - maybe that upsets you but it has after all been like 15 years since her last appearance, so it shouldn’t be unreasonable to accept some changes to her character.
Do you mean Hakan mashing Ultra 1 during your block strings being a valuable scare tactic? :o Maybe in casuals, but not in any competent scenario…
Cammy in SFV also has a versatile Critical art like the one you describe of Hakan’s Super – so we actually do have that covered, no? Was this actually a big deal to you?
You could compare FADC to V-reversal - they do the same thing, but they don’t arbitrarily reward certain characters with much more damage than others, and that’s a heartwarming balance change in my book.
SFIV offense was to the point where somebody like Cammy could jump in, spam hit-confirms, go to throw if unsuccessful, and repeat the whole crap. That was definitely not to my liking, at all… Not to forget the state of Akuma in the first installment of SFIV with his standing heavy kick routines.
It’s not always luck - it’s also “timing” — people are really stressing “spacing” but I think everybody forgets about timing. Perhaps your opponent has a good intuition on when you are going to press a button and he “predicts” when to press his own? This is an actual thing so don’t shrug it off immediately. It’s like when you jump in on your opponent with a heavy kick and leave them in some block-stun, then you delay your follow-up attack to get a counter-hit — this is actually a real thing so look into it and try it out for yourself as this sort of timing is just as important as spacing, believe me. I call it “Space + Time” 
I disagree. I think your tools, as in your normal-moves are much more predictable and reliable like this. There have been many a times where I’ve hoped to get the close version of an attack only to fail humiliatingly and eat a combo, or something. This is a very welcome change in my book, as everything is just that much more orderly and in a sense “non-random”.
Could be… I think Balrog is a little undeveloped on the players’ side, but maybe that’s just me… I have faith in the design and balance from the SFV team, however, so without being all too familiar with either character I’d still venture a guess that there is indeed balance between Karin and Balrog, personally.
But he’s also been playing the same character for all this time 
What undiscovered tech are you referring to? Something like “infinites”? =) Maybe we should look at Infiltration’s opponents too, and give Infiltration credit for how he’s managed to stay on top despite allegedly “playing the same way since beta”…
I don’t. Playing against “turtles” is akin to asking someone for a dance and them doing “the running man” rather than the tango with you.
You just did like every other guy, despite my question being where you got your “facts” from :o
Another possibility to the “lack of arcade mode” is that SFIV ate up most of the returning player base, and some perhaps didn’t feel like taking another stab at it, y’know, perhaps after being paired up with shitty Cammy players and Akuma players and Abels and El Fuertes and all that trash that was in IV… My guess is as good as yours, right?