Anyone else not buying into the SFV hype?

Street Fighter V
1303

Sf5 is a dumb game because the upclose game is shit. Never have I felt so weak up close in a streetfighter game.

If you go for a confirm, you are automatically pushed out on block. This is like every character, with few exceptions.

If you go for a tick throw, it’s low damage cause throws are low damage, or it gets broken in the huge throw tech window… Things that beat throws once again give up your turn if unsuccessful. This is really stupid in a game with few options to do good damage except meter dump.

So since throws are low damage and frame traps weird to time cause of huge tech window, this leaves us with mediums to do semi decent damage. But most mediums can’t be canceled into anything safe. So the medium itself I like the best damage one can get.

So the effect is that everyone is on a fucking pogo stick jumping around cause offense is crap outside point blank. So the only “advantaged on block, confirm on hit, still have pressure” thing is blocked or hit jumpins.

Game is just bad mechanically speaking and I think it’s because they fucked up the philosophy. Commitment shouldn’t be the balancing factor because it just makes a game where everyone just does lots of dumb shit till something works.

Game would probably be perfect with bigger throw ranges and smaller tech windows.

As it is right now, delay tech is to strong and creates a big hole in the game play. It allows people to OS tech timing and mixup techs with stupid shit like mashed jabs and mediums. It’s funny because the game says it’s all about “commitment” but that commitment is offensive only. On defense the only thing needed to commit to is dp and one can easily circumvent that by simply not dping and on,y mixing between delay tech and fast buttons.

So yeah that’s my say. Throws need a huge buff. Delay tech shouldn’t allow 3 different timings to tech, you get 1 timing. One guess window, not 3.

1304

No game is perfect. Question is does the amount of things you like outnumber the shit that you don’t like.

Oh good, I’m laughing so hard right now. I think…I think I’m gon’ die.

1305

So will next school year’s World History books come with a SFIV section?

1306

Ah that’s awesome. I failed miserably when attempting on pad; And most the ones I did pull off I’d brag about, when it was really just a fluke lol. I found wave dashing into EWGF really hard. Especially when you try to do it fast.

As for Hitbox. Yeah not surprised, I played a lot of fighters on emulation and outside of keyboard ghosting. It was so easy. I like the feel of a stick though (hrmm, that doesn’t sound too healthy lol.)

Also in regards to unlocking survival colors. With the most recent patch adding story mode, Balrog and Ibuki. My account had lost all saved progress. Hence, I still had my colors but I didn’t know which characters had finished extreme, trials, demonstrations etc…

I was pretty annoyed and after looking for a solution, I was recommended the 1 round survival mod. To my knowledge no one has been in trouble for it. And it was a life saver. I unlocked all the colors for chars that i play with…and made a some spare FM :slight_smile:

1307

Agree 100%
I think you just about hit the nail on the head…

1308

Lets hope this is something they are willing to tweak in the comming years then ^^

1309

My theory is that they made the throws weak because of gray damage. Any hit can convert gray damage, but low/throw is the most common mixup.

1310

Throws could use I slight range buff. There are times when I standing over a ducking opponent and my freaking throw whiffs. Slightly less pushback on hit would be welcome as well.

1311

I think throws are fine. Bison is by no means a strong character, but his throw range is probably one of the most annoying things in the game to me. But that’s his balance. His footsies are subpar, so why not give him the best throw range in the game?

I do dislike the pushback in this game. It makes the game more turn-based. But I supposed that’s because of the gray damage factor. Idk if you guys noticed this, but Daigo at CEO did not really do many up close shimmies. He would do a stand strong, low strong, stand forward block string. Lots of gray damage. Then he would throw out stand short or fireballs to turn that into real damage. Love Daigo. He’s already changing the meta his own way, imo.

1312

I haven’t been this invested in SF since III Alpha. USFIV in particular did become really fun to watch, especially with all the ridiculous moments in 2015 (eg. Stunfest Top 8), but some mechanics in SFIV kinda bugged me, such as FADC turning what should’ve been unsafe options into legitimate strategies, as well as invincible backdashes.

SFV, in my opinion, feels like what SF excelled with in the past. It’s more of a chess match and each individual move you make matters. I like that a player can’t just DP into someone else’s guard and simply cancel it so that he won’t get punished. I’m not saying SFIV was bad, mind, since I thought USFIV was a great end result; I just believe SFV’s mechanics make it more…Street Fighter.

1313

801 Strider in an interview said SFV feels like a Netherrealm Studios fighting game: You are either fighting up in your opponent’s face or not even close, and I tend to agree. This game lacks a mid range because normals are too short.

1314

Bison is an outlier in that he has one of if not the biggest throw ranges in the game. But that’s really besides the point, even his throw range is short compared to other games.

In other games, such as ST, you can do a blocked jumpin, then do between 1-4 jabs and STILL throw the other person. That’s how big the throw range is. Of course that’s taking it a bit far, but the point is that game works pretty well as far as that is concerned.

Pushback actually makes certain forms of offense better. Like you can attack with a move that is -2 on block with lots of pushback really well. But a move that is -2 on block, but with no pushback, is really bad cause you then put yourself into a mixup situation in favor of the person that blocked.

As an example, rashids lp mixer unmashed on block is -2 and point blank. But Alex’s lk elbow is -3 but done from max range doesn’t even usually give up Alex’s turn.

As far as daigos white damage strat, that’s all well and good, but that’s low damage. 10 points of white damage per move is 30 white damage. Add on a random medium poke and that’s 90 damage. Still less than a throw and no followup momentum. It’s GREAT for bads as they now have a very low investment damage modifier, but it isn’t great in most other aspects.

White damage to me is what they put in the game as a balance to throws being so bad. I think they knew they couldn’t make a very functional game if throws are as bad as they are so they threw in white damage as well.

1315

See here’s my contention with that statement. I disagree with the people who say SFV is a return to the series’ roots. When I think of Street Fighter I think of speed. I think of footsies. I think of high learning curves. SFV is not any of those things, it feels more like a NRS fighter like Mortal Kombat as I said before. SFV to me is more of a departure from the “true spirit” of Street Fighter than IV is.

1316

But what is the “true spirit” of Street Fighter when every single entry in the series has its own unique gameplay? SF2 doesn’t play like SF1, SF3 not like SF2, SF4 not like SF3 and so on. Ask yourself, does your favorite SF also happen to embody the “true spirit” of SF? If yes, THEN BY JOVE, WHAT A COINCIDENCE THAT IS!

What are the series roots anyway btw? Is it SF1? Is it ST? Is it CE? 3S? A2? A3?

This kind of thinking is distorts one’s perspective on the truth of the situation, which is that SF5 should try to be like SF5 and nothing else. It will garner its own hardcore audience, and it will have its own detractors, just like every single other entry in the series. If SF has a true spirit, then it is how polarizing each entry in the series has been, especially to the audience of the previous entry.

SF is fine, and it will only get better from here.

1317

I’m answering the “SFV is more like Street Fighter” argument. I assume people mean the old school games such as ST and the Alpha series when the statement “X game is a return to the franchises roots” is thrown around. And if you ask me, yeah, SFIV has a more old school feel. In fact if you followed its development, SFIV was designed to feel more like SF2 in spite of SF3.

Bolded is a statement I can’t agree with more. That’s sig worthy.

1318

SF4 plays nothing like old school SF. SF5 is much more reminiscent of old school SF but if I were honest, I’d say it it doesn’t feel like old school SF either.

The last time I played a fighting game that genuinely felt like Street Fighter was CvS2 oddly. Even though it had the eccentric groove system, something about the flow of that game felt quintessentially Street Fighter to me.

1319

Oddly I have very strong feelings about that game as well when it comes to a “Street Fighter identity”

1320

I came up on oldschool, grew up with it. Alpha was newschool to me. 3s was an abomination that no one wanted to play, so we didn’t.

Sf4 played ALOT like oldschool. Meaning the alphas or ST. It wasn’t perfect by any means of course but it did harken back to what felt more like ST style fundamentals along with certain 3s elements thrown in.

One can argue either point till they are blue in the face, but at the end of the day it basically goes like this:

3s=bad on block specials/unsafe stuff and more about pokestring variance and using weird hitconfirms.

ST= more safe on block/positive specials, game is centered around tick throws and lockdown patterns via pokestrings that don’t have any special variance.

So sf4 came in and basically took that “philosophy” and added in poke string variance like in 3s, along with ex moves and the like, but took a more ST style approach with easy confirms and safe on block specials.

Sf5 harkens back to more 1 hit hitconfirms, high amounts of blockstring variance, bad on block specials and the nerfing of tick throws and is much more dash throw prone.

Thing is, I don’t really consider 3s “oldschool” 3s to me is the first newschool game post ST. ST is a transitional game from oldschool, which was WW through hyper fighting. Then transitional ST, then full on newschool with 3S and cvs2.

3s was radical though so the newer games have taken the 3s philosophy and toned it down a bit. But in a nutshell, sf4 was more ST based and sf5 is more 3s based.

Or a better way to put it:

Sf4 was intended to mix some of the best of 3s and ST with an emphasis on ST.

Sf5 is a mix of SF4 (which is mixed with 3s and ST, but now the emphasis is on 3s philosophy not an ST philosophy) and guilty gear along with some new elements like very bad throws.

1321

I’d classify ‘old school SF’ as everything before ST that’s not SF1. SF4 didn’t feel like those, certainly not after vanilla SF4. To be honest, SF4 didn’t feel like any preceding SF game. It was very much alien to me when I first started to play it. I couldn’t enjoy it after Super and had to relapse into older SF games.

But I agree with your assessment on SF5. It is reminiscent of SF3 more than anything else. But it doesn’t feel as foreign to me as SF4 did. Which is why I enjoy it so much. It is the SF game i’ve been waiting for since the 90s. I am very optimistic about its future because I recognize in it all the potential ingredients necessary for greatness, if Capcom develop it right.

By greatness I don’t mean it will be like SF2, but rather it will be like SF5 and SF5 will be considered one of the great fighting games of all time.

1322

When Vanilla SF4 came out, a lot of people said that it played more like classic SF, too. Lol. And then Ultra removed a lot of the set play and was the most balanced version of the game in terms of the cast.

In SD arcades, a lot of people only played 3S when MVC2 wasn’t available. A lot of people didn’t commit to 3S for a long time. And even then, things like empty jumps, parry 5 anti-airs, then land in a cross attack were a thing and so idk why people say 3S is more Street Fighter than 4 was. Even some of the guys whose favorite SF is 3S say it’s the least like SF. A lot of people also say that having parry as a wakeup option was scrubby, too.

I’m not saying SF4 was perfect, but by no means was it a bad game. By no means did it bypass fundamentals. The strongest players in SF5 were the strongest players in Ultra. That alone means that fundamentals are a factor in both games.

See the thing about that whole DP FADC complaint is that meter built a lot slower in 4. In general, most characters would only get about three bars every round so meter management was more important. SF4 was still a chess match. If someone has two bars and a DP, then I know they have DP FADC as an option and will weigh my risk/reward accordingly. If they burned that meter on a DP FADC, then they wouldn’t have the meter to FADC again until the next round. In Ultra, they made DP FADC forward -5 on block, so it was punishable. So FADC back became the more common option. So even if they hit you with the DP, it didn’t hurt that much, they ended up with less meter, and they had to work back in if they didn’t have the life lead. If you blocked the DP, you could walk forward or forward dash with their backdash, and punish them. It was indeed still a chess game.

In SF5, DP characters except for Necalli can still cancel their DP into super to avoid the crush counter punish. Obviously, whether that’s the best option for them to do will depend on the situation, but it is still reminiscent of the same concept. Also, Ken can cancel his DP into VT. It’s still -5, like FADC forward in Ultra, but imo it’s harder to react to.

You know, invincible backdashes were the most annoying thing to me whenever I played against Rose and Chun. There were a lot of Rose and Chun players in Ultra. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore. Can you imagine how shitty playing against Nash would be if invincible backdashes were in 5?