Anyone else not buying into the SFV hype?

Street Fighter V
883

You guys heat that same cold food again and again, then serve it. “What about newcomers?”

YOu dont need os, kara, 1 framers etc to have fun in sf4. First time I was playing sf4 2kpp was a serious barrier for me. years after, the more I delved into the game more I got better yet I always felt like a scrub. 4700pp was my most (took me years), I was around 4100-4200 mostly yet whenever I played against someone better than me I felt like a scrub. I still do.

I “delved” into 4, it didnt evolve. There’s nothing to “delve” in sf5 and it wont evolve. it’s shallow as fuck. what you see is what the game will be 2 years later. I’m so confident saying that cos it’s a development choice. I play sf5 once or twice in a week, I play ranked much less than casual matches. Everytime I play ranked I add chunks of pp. I don’t train, I don’t look at frame data, I don’t search the web, watch videos, learn tech etc etc. I just try to go around peoples tactics.

Also I dont live in a tournament happy part of the world. I don’t have any nba rings, but I’m sure I’m allowed criticise phil jackson.

ps: I feel like I can get a match from infiltration. yes. just by making right choices/guesses. I couldn’t dream of getting a round from him in sf4. Just one match I don’t care if he beats my ass 99-1. Anyone can get a match from infiltration. That’s why this game sucks. But its fun for now, though my playing times get shorter and shorter. ffs I even picked “knack” over sf5 in my precious free time.

884

Chun li ramps up the hate once again

885

You choose correctly enough times and you win. This happens in every game.
I fail to understand your logic

886

It’s pretty clear what he’s saying. SFIV’s depth is such that there is a greater difference between an experienced player and a -very- experienced player. That difference is enough that even someone who plays a lot and has a great deal of experience can find people who are so much -more- experienced that they can’t touch them. Inflitration is one of the best players in the world, and 99.9% of players would never be able to take a game from him in SFIV.

SFV, however, is a much shallower game. It is much easier to “choose correctly enough times” in SFV because the options on both sides are so limited in comparison to SFIV. “Choosing correctly” in V is a much easier task. And because of this, in V drskull feels like he could realistically take a game from Infiltration (out of how many games, who knows, but one is infinitely larger than none.)

In IV there are just so many more options at any given time that learning to use them all and be cognizant of what the opponent’s options are is a tremendous challenge, and this leads to a steep learning curve that appears to just keep going. SFV’s rigid combo system and lack of meaningful options is far, far easier to wrap your skull around, to the point where there’s not much a -very- experienced player can do to surprise a moderately experienced player. To be a little hyperbolic, it’s a bit like comparing chess to tic-tac-toe. There’s a far lower resolution of things to keep track of and manage properly.

I’m sure most players of IV, even if they have played for the last seven years, feel like they still have a great deal left to learn. SFV feels like 98% of everything you need to know can be mastered in a few weeks. There’s very little surprise left after that, very little sense of there being levels of tech above us waiting to be unlocked. That’s really the essence of this thread.

887

If tech and studying shit on youtube made Infiltration harder to beat then I’m not really sure that’s a great selling point for IV over V. Don’t matter how many techs, traps and setups you study, it’s still mainly going to be your fundamentals that makes up the majority of whether or not you beat him in IV or V. It’s just the forced amount of tech you have to learn that makes it tough for a player like John Choi to run into Evo and beat him in Ultra (but at least he could beat Daigo with lower tier Ryu LOL).

Funny enough Wong seems to be doing better in V over IV since his fundamentals are god tier and he finally gets to play a game where not being 100 percent on all the latest tech and meta doesn’t throw him under the bus to the asians.

CVS2 was probably more complicated in some ways than SFIV, but I feel that was more of a game where just having really solid fundamentals could do more for you than all of the cheap RC and A groove tech in the game.

Not going to say SFV’s fundamentals or lack of emphasis on tech is a perfect situation, but overall I see it being something that people don’t worry about much by the time Season 2018 hits. Just like SFIV, most of the people that complained about how shallow SFIV was will be gone by then with just a game that is mostly praised for the next 7 years.

888

There is nothing hard to execute in chess. It’s only logical thinking and prediction. No one would call chess “shallow” though.
I think the amount of stuff you had to learn in sfiv in order to be competitive weighed down a lot of players. Also, you had to learn most of that stuff just to cover some dumb aspects of the game that were removed in V (i.e. OS to beat invincible back dashes, plinking to make execution easier and so on).

If a random player can go against infiltration and win, we will see some hype tournaments in the future

889

I feel like the issues with the game in V comes with the content, stubby normals, shit that can be mashed out, some characters more “play dumb” friendly and can get away with/gimmicks, but I’d never argue the whole “IT’S NOT AS IN DEPTH AS IV”.

Like Los said (And I’d hate to say I’m agreeing with him for once.), No one would call Chess shallow, but it’s nothing hard to execute about it. Just plain logic and prediction.

Any fighting game comes with getting in your opponent’s head and cracking them wide open. What you guys are arguing involving IV is that the game had so much content in options, that the person who could contain all that plethora of knowledge and use it at immediate call/instinct is considered an amazing/best player.

Now while I agree, such a player of sorts is amazing from retaining such knowledge and being able to use it on-call, that doesn’t mean V is bad compared to IV. (Far from it, really. Since I consider IV one of the worst SF games.) It means that while we come to the point that yes this is similar to IV in vanilla stages (Even tho IV had more shit.), it hasn’t had enough time to flesh out to compare it to end-game IV at that point AND it doesn’t mean there is no depth in the intensive mind games that can still be played here. V is the bridge of the gap that leads from IV to 3S and I really can see that in how certain movesets of certain players and v-meters are incorporated into this game. Not only that, it gives many players less options to choose from compared to IV, but options none the same.

Soooo with less options in a match and more people able to retain said options - what does this mean?

It means that the possibility of blowing up big players became a lot more closer to reality in comparison to IV.

The reason top players were/are so good is because they’re good at finding things within the game they can tweak/break to the point that once they started doing it, everyone else follows. Or retaining more of the knowledge in the game that others can’t keep up. So if you put these same people in a game where everyone can follow through in the game as much as them, it doesn’t boil down to the knowledge, but more on their fundamentals, skill and patience to see a match through. Which is why I can see why more people are hype with V. Not only that, but V moves a lot faster than IV and it’s not as zone friendly (which 3s is more like) unless you’re really good at it. (Which 3s is also very much like.)

Like of all the shit to complain about in the game, I don’t think this reason is it. I think the game is butt in numerous ways, but even I know I’d play this shit before IV.

890

People acting like infiltration was a bastion of tech. No, the guy’s fundamentals are hilariously solid. For the love of god, he counterpicked cammy with chun so he could use normals all day.

891

He was always the more fundamental and straightforward of the top two Akumas. Tokido had the tech.

892

Sound like you prefer part of the game reserved for high elite pros, but SFV is already pretty essential itself as concept, put an higher execution barrier will just made a “small” game even “smaller” for 95% of players, glad they did’nt

Reserved stuff is’nt needed to put pros on another level anyway, Kasparov’s knight still move as a 2+1 “L”

I understand it flat a lil bit the show at high levels forcing to appreciate more subtle stuff, but on other hand every is lost as spectator is won as common players

893

I prefer that part of the game reserved for the players who train more. not to the players mp all day.

if you still resist not to understand my point, I’ll assume you are one of the guys who cant convert opportunites into dmg in sf4 .

MP into MP should not be a frame trap, MP into MP also should not be a combo. MP, should not be the sole poking, footsie tool in a game. MP, shimmy. MP, MP frame trap. Mp, Mp combo… MP! anti air. Street Fighter Mp v.1.0. You guys throw shit on sf4 but you miss a point sf4 was a vast game. yet you resist. the only acceptable possibilty for me is that you suck at that game and you cant comprehend it. calling the game mechanics flawed.

894

some players crucified me when I said fundamentals are all you need to reach silver about a month or two months ago.

I was accused of scaring off the newcomers.

895

When i see a jab-jab-jab-special combo in SF4, I know it’s difficult because of the 1f links involved, I “relate and appreciate” it if you will, but I yawn nonetheless because it’s visually boring, then I switch stream to another fighting game. I don’t want MvC3 80-hit, 30-second long combos, but SF5 combos are punchy and impactful enough to provide a good spectacle, and that’s the most important if you want spectators to buy your game.

I’ll take MP Fighter 5 over Jab Fighter 4 any day. More visually appealing.

896

jabjabjabjabspecial = no dmg. jabjab is no frame trap. jab is nothing but a confirm. no skill no dmg sorry.

897

3rd Strike, CVS2 and Alpha 3 can get pretty complicated too. SFIV wasn’t the only complicated SFish game. I played Viper and Ibuki during the first 2 years of SFIV and play arguably the most execution heavy character in V so I have no problem doing complicated things. It’s just lame when the whole game is comprised of background executions that aren’t very visual for the player or streamer.

Lights were overly strong in neutral in SFIV. They did too many things and that’s why people relied on them heavily even though they had other bigger buttons. Your lights were faster and usually confirmed from strong ranges. Even got to the point where you had characters like Elena that could footsie and bnb with lights at ranges that were longer than some characters mediums and heavies. It was smart to forego damage to control neutral with buttons that were longer and faster than the mediums and heavies. That was a legit play style for IV.

I’d say in V it’s more like mediums and heavies are used a lot more over lights. Characters like Karin and Ken throw around heavy normals just as much or more than the mediums. Which is actually pretty reminiscent of 3rd Strike and Alpha 2/3. Those were both games where links were very few and far in between. Linking being a heavy thing was only really in like ST and CVS2. In games like Alpha 2, A2 Rose pretty much played like most of the characters in V. 3rd Strike Ken doing one hit medium confirms into stuff is very much like V as well.

898

easy links are acceptable when those buttons are not also…everything.

played against erdem’s ibuki offline lots of times. the guy had sako-like executions but it was his footsies and spacing that beat me. Once I perfected his ibuki, crowd went wild, he perfected me back. We both had perfect execution but he outplayed me (dj).

background executions appeal to every sf4 enthusiast. there are no input visual on any sf5 replays online.

It’s a good choice to pick heavies over jabs. BUT. jabs don’t grant you frame traps or dmg in sf4. to be honest there are a few chars in sf4 who rely on heavy or strong button ftraps(cody for example). in this game every one is a cody. it’s one button to rule them all situation we are having in sf5.

899

Not only is this ad hominem BS (if you disagree with me then you must be this or that), but it’s also hilariously wrong. In SF4 I played Juri and Gouken who were among the only characters with semi-stylish combos (but all of them started with medium attacks). Now check JWong’s Rufus. St.LK>st.LK>st.LK>st.HP> Galactic Tornado all day, every day. Boooooooring.

900

bore us please. hit that lk lk hp constantly. and bore us. please.

901

Watching LK-LK-HP-Tornado is boring, no matter how hard it is to execute. If you think the contrary then you’re just delusional (see ? I can do ad hominem too).

902

whatever you thinking is not what ad hominem means btw.

“sorry but. you are a scrub.”

this is ad hominem. and you are a scrub.