u are redeemed.
Dammit! I was in the grocery store (buying kale, actually), and couldn’t post the link to the video in time. Would have been cooler.
SOooooo, where do vegans and vegetarians get their energy from? Beans and rice? Doesn’t your body atrophy over a couple years?
I dont get why people say kale tastes bad, I eat it raw.
The mountain vegans in Humboldt area grow this cause it can survive winters. Kale is an S-tier brassica.
Kale chips are bomb.
By energy what do you mean? Kcal? Any carbohydrate is sufficient so for me its rice/noodles/potatoes. If I burn 1000 calories on a run I will need to replace it with rice, 10 bananas, or some equivalent. You may be thinking that vegan means energy derived from green plants, which is false for a healthy vegan. Energy comes from starch or sugar, or fat if one is a ketogenic vegan, or whatever. Atrophy?You are mistaken if you think this is a vegan trait.
Good question though. It opens up for great discussion.
K, confused you with some other dude. My bad.
A comparison of ancient cultures in Africa shows that tribes that did not eat meat thrived the least. In general, those that were lean, had broad shoulders, and muscular ate prominently meat, and also the whole animal.
I don’t have a pinpoint source on this, buuut you can do your own research.
I’ve met quite a few vegetarians and they always seem somewhat weaker, but then almost everyone has a sedentary lifestyle. Most people that I’ve seen over 5-10 years, have their bodies slowly atrophy, but then one can argue that doesn’t really matter since most won’t be packing any muscle worthy of note save a few esoteric powerlifters in the most obscure circles.
Don’t read this as contentious rather I’m trying to see how it works. I guess it’s the rice and beans and the quinoa. Also, why do you this?
Veganism is new, the data for it is limited. Cultures in Africa that ate meat probably were getting more calories. We think of starch as high calorie only because we aren’t farming manually to get it. Bone samples of buried gladiators revealed that they were not meat eaters (since meat consumption leaves marks on teeth that archaeologists can find). Many centenarian diets include so little meat that it basically would make no difference if it were consumed at all. Another thing to consider is lifespan, one can be really big muscle wise but that doesnt mean it comes without a price. Size is also not an indicator of strength as intramuscular inflamation (can be caused by dairy) appears to be muscle but isn’t. Also, there is a lot of competition in sports and again vegans are a minority and the science behind it is still infant. To test the vegan diet, I maintain that only lab studies should be considered. The variables in historic examples (like the one you mentioned) are too wide, and we may both be missing something.
Data as of today shows no such atrophy in vegan diets (that are healthy, this is key since being below 1200 calories is starvation I believe). Even Ostioperosis, for example, occurs primarily in milk drinking countries, but that data is still a correlation. The vegans you see are all anecdotal experiences, for all I know you have only met vegans that also lead unhealthy lifestyles (not sleeping, under-hydrated, etc). I say veganism should not be argued qualitatively, nor should arguments against it since so many arguments against vegans are morelike arguments against other aspects of their lifestyle. Since many vegans are hippies, many smoke pot, some even smoke cigarettes. It clouds the issue, especially when as I stated vegans represent a fringe minority of the population. Not that I consider cannabis bad, but it does alter metabolic rates and who knows what the difference is between a vegan with THC-altered metabolic rates and one without? That study doesn’t exist yet.
My point is that the historical data is suspect given the primitive nature of cultures before the electron microscope blew open the knowledge of mitochondria, even vegan favorite arguments such as the ostioperosis correlation are suspect. Which is why I took the empirical approach and used myself as a labrat. Also, the age bracket you know these people at makes a difference. The aging process kicks up after 25, so if they became vegan then it would appear that they are aging faster (cause they are), but it won’t be the diet that did it. Vegans also consume less fats, fats which can mask striations in skin. This will allow wrinkles to become more visible, but this doesn’t necessarily mean unhealthy. Tribes in Guyana that consume primarily Casava regularly have members that work into their estimated 90s (no birth date records). Although meat exists in their diet, it is again in a remote (hard to find) amount. Their protein is mostly from mycelium (they make these amazingly sweet cakes out of casava and fungi). I have a sneaking suspicion that the application of things like cronometer will fix the issues with a plant-derived diet, and that the cultural issues found before stemmed from an unbalanced diet more than a plant-derived one.
I’ve always been curious about vegan diets. Mainly how sustainable it is. Around my way it isn’t easy getting vegan food and when I do it’s pretty expansive.
They were originally POW from tribes that consisted primarily of meat eaters, but once in the colosseum, the gladiators were given primarily wheat to get fat for two reasons: 1. for show 2. for protection (better for tissue to be damaged rather than muscles or tendons).
Alright now, let’s flip the table, what do you say or think about diets consisting of primarily meats?
And for clarity’s sake:
Where are you coming from?
- Did you perchance just wake up and decide to be vegan?
- Is there a context that we should know of?
What are you trying to do?
- Ideally, what will you have accomplished at the end of the day?
What measurements are you based on/collecting?
- Mortality rates? % of degenerative diseases?
I’ve watched Vegan cooking videos, though apparently the meals the chef makes aren’t Vegan.
Some of the arguments in this thread are really dumb. Yo, plants die is comparable to animals, ok, man. Look, no one is going to convince the other person to change their mind. If people want to join this thread to meet other vegans or ask why, please don’t then get argumentative about their choices and then shit on them for it. I don’t shit on people for eating meat even though it’s obviously something I’m very against.
As for kids in sweat shops, look, if they’re orphans, then their guardians are making a choice for them. If not, then their parents are. If not either of those, then it’s other humans kidnapping them. Everyone knows this is obviously wrong, but there is still a human choice made in the matter that is obviously morally wrong. Also, no legitimate products in the USA are made by kids in sweat shops. Most of this stuff is made by adults in China. If people find out it’s made by kids in sweat shops, that shit hits the media and an huge shit storm brews. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SUPPORTS THAT SHIT and you bet your ass I would be against it and wouldn’t buy those products. This is a flawed argument because the products that are made in sweat shops like cell phones and shit are made by adults who make these choices for themselves. Again, it might not be a good situation or an easy choice to make, but between having money for food or no money at all, the choice becomes easier even if you have to work your ass off 12 to 18 hours a day. Again, if it does come up that kids were slaved into making this shit, people tend to have issues with it and shit storms happen.
I’m not trying to convince anyone here, but don’t bring up stupid strawman shit. This isn’t about cell phones and crap, it’s about choices for why people are vegan.
The sad thing is a bunch of you guys think it’s so funny to come in and troll and be dumb about it. Like those of us who made this choice haven’t heard it a million times by people who aren’t vegan and haven’t seen the stupid jokes or whatever. Very fucking funny. It gets old, so old after a while. You aren’t clever or funny, just dumb for thinking you’re the first person who gave a vegan shit for being a vegan.
Also, maybe some of us wouldn’t have to get on a soap box or be preachy or whatever the fuck you guys want to call it if we weren’t being derided by idiots who can’t accept other people might not be like them. Get a fucking life.
Also, if any vegans or vegetarians haven’t had the chance yet, you seriously need to get some seitan. Shit’s delicious and packed with protein.
Hail Seitan!
Cant remember his name, but there’s a pretty big ambassador for vegetarianism in the UFC. Admittedly, when I was doing it, a lot of the protein came from fish, but soy and quinoa have pretty high protein content too.
The in our family, it wasn’t about cruelty, saving animals, saving money etc.
I think my dads engineer brain just found it inefficient and mathematically broken to put hundreds of pounds of grain into an animal over tine, for a few pounds of meat, when he could just have the grain immediately and cut out the middle man haha.
Either way we’re all 6’0 plus and big, so it’s possible.
I’m a vegetarian at home but when I go out I eat whatever the hell I want. I respect vegans but i’m not willing to give up dairy products and fish, those foods are rich in micronutrients and essential amino acids.
Though i’m a firm believer that eating meat is completely useless, there’s nothing in meat you can’t find in fish or eggs. Not to mention that vitaminB12 is mostly found in fish, eggs and dairy products.
Fish isn’t meat? 
Cut out fish you can still get all the essential nutrients from eggs and dairy products.