Another Patch? Where's my mask?! El Fuerte Changes suggestion discussion

[300]

Hi guys, I searched capcom unity threads and tried to compile a buff list for most characters, based on the sugestions posted there.
The idea is - stronger characters will receive less buffs, weaker ones more, and top tiers mostly nothing.
I will post the entire buff list on capcom unity tomorrow.

This is Fuerte’s list:

El Fuerte

• Tostada Press: Improve hitbox. There are times when you will see El Fuerte touch the opponent and nothing happens.
• cr HP: make it run cancelable
• Quesadilla Bomb: decrease start up so it can be combed from cr Mk;
• Level 1: +7 hitstun (-6)
• Ex: decrease recovery on hit
• Guacamole Leg Throw: fix the trade issue, by either making it a 2 hit move, or by modifying Fuerte’s grabbing box and reduce his hurt box.
• cl HP: +25 stun (175)
• Gordita Sobat: increased active frames
• Ultra 2: Revert startup to 1+3 frames (from Super). Reduce damage to 400
• Fajita Buster: Make it into an empty grab that does no damage but leaves the opponent in enough hitstun to combo into RSF, similar to the Yun/Fei command grab.
• far HP: reduce the start up by 2 frames (15)
• Ultra 1: +30 dmg (500)

Explanations:

[details=Spoiler]

• Tostada Press: I’ve had people beat me in tourney because splash whiffs right on their shoulder on critical down to the wire moments while they were crouching, then they got a free punish. It’s already punishable and focus beats the option and its rewarding if they block/counter correctly, on Paper, its technically riskier for us to do it because it can lead to death.
• cr HP: this would give us more mix up options off an anti air plus it forces stand soo we could mix it up and land rsf more often.
• Quesadilla Bomb: There are ways this move can be improved. But I want to go into why this move is bad and needs more help.
  For starters. We can compare this move to Balrog’s Turn Around Punch (TAP) and Cody’s Zonk Knuckle, you must give up a button(s) to charge the move.
  The main difference here is that Balrog’s and Cody’s have invincibility. Fuerte’s does not.
  now we go deeper into this move’s problems:
  Level 1 Q-bomb, the only one that does not knock down, is punishable on hit.
  El Fuerte can only combo this move under the following circumstances:
  close Fierce XX Q-Bomb.
  This is bad. if you landed a Close Fierce you should be going for close fierce.
  on counter hit combos after close MP, Far Mp far MK crouch MK. But what else combos after these counter hits?
  you cancel to run and do Calamari Slide for a hard knockdown.
  or, in the case of Close MP, and crouch MK, you cancel these normals to Run and you combo into close Fierce. His run stop fierce.
  Translation: everything you can use with Quesadilla bomb has a better use.
  We move on: the other use it has is to simply use it ‘randomly’ and by itself as a surprise move or to counter a few specific moves, in the right positions it beats divekicks, hurricane kicks and even trades with Sakura’s upwards Ultra 2, beats Abel’s ultra 2, and smashes counter ultras since it’s an armor breaker. BUt a random move is a bad move.
  How to fix:
  Decrease the startup enough to allow it to combo from crouch Medium kick.
  Reason: Fuerte’s only damage option right now is Run Stop Fierce. allowing to combo from crMK means we now have a new combo with actual damage being crLP, crLK, crMK xx Qbomb
  Decrease recovery on hit for EX Qbomb.
  Reason: it is very difficult to follow up EX Quesadilla Bomb’s counter hit wall bounce.
• Guacamole Leg Throw: There are times when this move trades with normals or specials. While I understand that things trade, the trade is unfair. if Sakura does a jump roundhouse and Fuerte correctly reads and Guacamole, the move can trade. when the trade happens Fuerte is hit out of Guacamole and takes damage, falling out of the air like a normal Anti Air situation. Sakura would teleport to the ground in a Hard Knockdown state but takes ZERO Damage. By the time Fuerte has landed Sakura has already stood up and is likely in a position of advantage.
  Solution A: make Guacamole 2 hits. Because trades will still happen, have the Guacamole deal half of it’s damage when Fuerte ‘catches’ them, and the other half when he slams them onto the floor.
  Solution B: Modify Fuerte’s grabbing box and reduce his hurt box. If he catches you, you are beaten cleanly.
• cl HP: close HP. back in Vanilla the move did 90 Damage and 200 Stun
  so on a naked 6 Hit Run Stop Fierce would look like this:
  Damage: 90/180/262/315/369/414
  Stun: 200/400/560/700/820/920
  Scaling% 100/100/ 80/ 70/ 60/ 50
  Finishing this with a Calamari Slide would be a Stun on 950 stun characters and 454 damage.
  Currently the damage is the same, the stun was changed. Where the same RSF would yield
  150/300/420/525/615/690
  We’ll get 770 stun if we mop up with a Calamari Slide.
  I’d say we bump the stun to 175. You’ll still need 2 reads, and execution, but it’s better than the low reward high risk he has now.
  Stun 175/350/490/613/718/806
  Scaling% 100/100/080/070/060/050
• Gordita Sobat: This move sucks. It’s supposed to beat back dashes yet is not active enough to do so consistently, and still loses to typical wake up options. And if you land it on a standing opponent what do you get? You either burn all your meter for Super, or you get to link ONE measly jab, and this ONLY works if you land the move deep on a grounded opponent.
• Ultra 2: Make it that dangerous Punisher that it’s supposed to be but lower the damage so it won’t be absurd like it was in Super
• Fajita Buster: This is a move that is very rarely seen, it is a grab that only hits standing opponents and only does 150 dmg - high risk, low reward. I have seen many fellow amigos request more damage from this move or for it to hit crouching opponents and that would also be great but I have an awesome idea for it. Make it into an empty grab that does no damage but leaves the opponent in enough hitstun to combo into RSF, similar to the Yun/Fei command grab. Fuerte currently has zero ways of reliably setting up an RSF outside of a punish or a focus attack and while I would hardly call a telegraphed command grab that only hits high ‘reliable’ it would certainly be a great improvement and an awesome reward for a hard read on the opponent. Also keep in mind the follow-up RSF could be scaled by the initial command grab – this is my most desired buff for Fuerte.
• far HP: this move is NOT special cancelable, and is excessively slow
• Ultra 1: A non-comboable grab. a big damage reward for a good read. [/details]

Would you agree with this ? anything broken/ too strong ?

Um ,YES…u think?
I do just fine in tournament play the way he is,he doesnt really need that much tampering…
.
Grab into free RSF?

Fajita is a part of the mixup game,splash or grab,duck or stand.
His damage output is fine.he dont need to do more.

-ultra 2 is balance right where it is,doesnt need to be Raging demon strong.

-Ultra2 does beat out abels ultra 2. I did it twice here(my nerves got the best of me at the end , this match was for 3rd place lol)you can regular throw him out of it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZzsWpIFsfc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Even I think this list is a bit much,its not realistic and should never happen.

[eva02langley]

I have played with Fuerte since Vanilla and I have mastered the bastard to a point that few have achieved.

Ultras:

Ultra 1
Okay, this Ultra needs major buffing… not in power, but in landings. This move is useless against any shotos or characters that can cancels their jump with a special move. This needs to stop. Bring it back to 450, but allow it to work.

For example, opponent is jumping on me on recovery, I go Ultra 1, opponent goes EX Tatsu, Ultra 1 miss.

You try to punish a mistake, but you can’t no matter what you do. Not only this, but Blanka is jumping so fast that it is impossible to land Ultra 1.

Solution, Ultra 1 need to cancel any inputs while activated if the opponent is in the air. Exactly the same as against teleportation, the opponent cannot escape so it should be the same.

Ultra 2
Buff it back to 500. I think you forgot why you gave him Ultra 2. His health is one of the lowest of the game and he cannot escape wakeup tactics, so he needs a counter balance somewhere and it WAS IT!

Super
Add invincibility to be use as anti-air on recovery.

Specials

Hanabero Dash
The Ex version should have no frame consideration. This way you could avoid recovery attacks. In the present case, if you don’t have any frame spare to do the move, you will get punished.

Tostada press
Better hitbox against crouched characters.

Fajitas Buster
Ground grab… if the tortilla propeller can grab crouching opponents, so should this move.

Gordita sobat
Make this move a jumping attack and a knockdown with similar property of the squid slide.

Squid slide
No changes

Tortilla propeller
No changes

Guacamole leg drop
BRING THE VANILLA AND SUPER VERSION OF THIS MOVE BACK! If you are to do just one thing, please bring this back to what it was. It is more an escape move than anything else. Now, it’s punishable like hell! Not only we cannot use it to get away, but we cannot get away at all and need to block the wakeup spam to live another day.

Also, this move shall never be traded, it’s an air grab for god sake, it takes precedence over everything!

Quesadilla bomb
Invincibility like Cody and Balrog. This is not normal that Fuerte is the only character who got this benefit removed. Also, charge of 2 seconds per level, so 6 seconds for level 3 and 8 seconds for EX. 9 seconds is ridiculously long for a level 3 and we are sacrificing a lot of gameplay.

Also, the Ex version should allow for a wall rebound for future punish. Like Juri ex jumping kick.

Picadillo jump
A picadillo jump should always allows for a wall jump, it was the main purpose of it.

Normal

Small punch and kicks should be easy to chain and not a nightmare.

Less startup frames for the H.K knee attack

Better crossing with jumping H.P.

[300]

I have played with Fuerte since Vanilla and I have mastered the bastard to a point that few have achieved.

Ultras:

Ultra 1
Okay, this Ultra needs major buffing… not in power, but in landings. This move is useless against any shotos or characters that can cancels their jump with a special move. This needs to stop. Bring it back to 450, but allow it to work.

For example, opponent is jumping on me on recovery, I go Ultra 1, opponent goes EX Tatsu, Ultra 1 miss.

You try to punish a mistake, but you can’t no matter what you do. Not only this, but Blanka is jumping so fast that it is impossible to land Ultra 1.

Solution, Ultra 1 need to cancel any inputs while activated if the opponent is in the air. Exactly the same as against teleportation, the opponent cannot escape so it should be the same.

Ultra 2
Buff it back to 500. I think you forgot why you gave him Ultra 2. His health is one of the lowest of the game and he cannot escape wakeup tactics, so he needs a counter balance somewhere and it WAS IT!

Super
Add invincibility to be use as anti-air on recovery.

Specials

Hanabero Dash
The Ex version should have no frame consideration. This way you could avoid recovery attacks. In the present case, if you don’t have any frame spare to do the move, you will get punished.

Fajitas Buster
Ground grab… if the tortilla propeller can grab crouching opponents, so should this move.

Gordita sobat
Make this move a jumping attack and a knockdown with similar property of the squid slide.

Guacamole leg drop
BRING THE VANILLA AND SUPER VERSION OF THIS MOVE BACK! If you are to do just one thing, please bring this back to what it was. It is more an escape move than anything else. Now, it’s punishable like hell! Not only we cannot use it to get away, but we cannot get away at all and need to block the wakeup spam to live another day.

Picadillo jump
A picadillo jump should always allows for a wall jump, it was the main purpose of it.

Normal

Small punch and kicks should be easy to chain and not a nightmare.

Less startup frames for the H.K knee attack

Better crossing with jumping H.P.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36329607.jpg

[Phrygian]

A few things I’d like to see:

• Fix the guac trade so that it actually trades, rather than just Elf taking damage.
• Q-bomb QCB+K. We’ve been asking for this for years, it’d be nice to have a usable armour break.
• Fix splash whiffing on opponent’s whiffed crouch attacks.
• Allow corpse hop to work on all characters.

[Komatik]

Make Elf fun to play against.