i wouldn’t even mind all the options these games give if there could just be strong normals and a few short combos for each character instead of learning a bunch of long combos
also excessively long air combos look stupid
The problem with that is, the crazy combos in the new style of games isn’t necessarily by design – it’s an emergant factor given the amount of options given to the player. IT’d be very difficult and artificial to restrict these combos, let alone in a way that assures easier execution.
I’m well aware of the whole combos being made possible through the engine thing, but one thing I wonder about is whether the developers of these games think about what their design is actually like in competitive play.
Another thing I’m not quite at grips with is understanding why this style of gameplay is so popular. :<
Marvel is really popular even though it can have retardedly long air combos or really complex stuff… so your guess is as good as mine to why this is.
I’d imagine it’s popular because a majority of the consumers want these days. The days of normal xx super or short combo into super for big damage have long since passed, with Akatsuki being the only new school fighter that plays like old school (but even then it’s old school style with a new school twist).
kmasera: Just look at how people even on this forum hate on defensive play. It’s a general aspect of humanity: On the whole, we are entertained by seeing lots of stuff happen at once. It’s part of why baseball is trailing behind the NFL and NBA.
I think I side more with you on this - I would love to see a new game based on the principles of ST. But that is not feasible in the current climate; hell, that was exactly what Battle Fantasia was supposed to be initially, but they were forced to shoehorn in features that made it more like Guilty Gear since that’s what sells in Japan.
^KOF XII is the closest thing you will get
stop bitching Arcana Heart rocks, the game is a great fighter so get the fuck out of your world and be more open minded
I always find myself thinking about how awesome it would be to have a new game come out with ST-esque gameplay. Instead we get games with minimal zoning and 25 layers of yomi because no one has to commit to anything or take risks.
Then again, I could just keep playing ST 
@_@
I think you should keep playing ST.
i think so too
Support U.S. Fighters and play Tattoo Assassins:nunchuck:
What’s EFZ? Never seen it played.
also, bait thread
It’s a doujin PC game known as Eternal Fighter Zero. Here is a video.
[media=youtube]o5K0GpzPxSA[/media]
looks meh. In my eyes theres just too many games that are like that now, it comes down to chains, some unique shit, and zoning. If you like those type’s just play GGXX, if you like a slower pace more strategic play Streetfighter 3s(I prefer cvs2 but whatever). You want a mix, play Mahrvel. All the other games are really good too like KOF, garou, MBAC, SSBB,ARCANA…etc but theres nothing that truly seperates them from the frontliners IMHO so why bother.
I hope it’s not too late to jump into this thread. Guilty Gear seems somewhat popular in the Central Florida Area. We used to have one of the Guilty Gear XX machines at Rocky’s Replay in Orlando. My friends and I bust out Hokuto no Ken and and Arcana Heart when we get the chance, but I think we’re in a small minority with regards to liking that. By the way, this post is going to be long. I apologize in advance!
I think the reason these games don’t do well is because of marketing or coverage. More people would play Guilty Gear or whatever isn’t being played enough if magazines, websites and other big HYPE generators were covering it as much as they were Soul Calibur IV or SFIV. I think that at least 90% of the time, that is what a game’s success will come down to. Also those are big franchises that people are familiar with and those games are easy to get into. A lot of these niche fighters also don’t do a great job of promoting who their characters are and what they are all about. I seriously have to Wikipedia fighting game characters that aren’t from Capcom or SNK every now and then just to know who they are and what they are doing in their games. Developers need to enhance their “story” modes and provide ways for players to learn more about their characters so they can relate to the characters and become attached to them.
Guilty Gear and the others have a steeper learning curb than something like Soul Calibur and there is not a “scene” for people to gather and learn them. SF II and the original Soul Calibur drew big crowds at arcades and information could be shared so that more could be learned about the various fighting games that were out. I learn more about playing fighting games from going to arcades than I do at home. But arcades are hard to come by now and it’s difficult to draw people to an unfamiliar fighting game if KOF/Tekken/MvC2 are down the way. Guilty Gear has enough flash and visual appeal to draw people to the machines, but if the fighting system is very complex and move lists are huge, non-hardcore players will have a hard time fitting in.
Console versions of fighting games try to solve this with pause screen move lists and practice modes; however, for lesser known fighting games to have a chance, they are going to need more. When introducing players to games with fighting systems they are unfamiliar with, they should be able to learn how to take advantage of the features. For example Street Fighter III may have been more successful in it’s early days if it gave players a chance to engage in a mode where they could learn how to parry and super cancel and see practical uses of that and many other aspects of the game. People could become more familiar with the game quickly and begin to love it. This concept can be beneficial to an arcade or home version of any fighting game. Hell, the beginning of lots of games from other game genres offer tutorials for players to learn gameplay mechanics. It really surprises me that it really hasn’t made it’s way with the fighting genre. For the fighting genre to grow it’s fanbase, it is absolutely necessary.
In short, the problem is that people aren’t playing these “anime” fighting games and other niche fighting games, mainly because they are not familar with the fighting systems, characters and story. They are not encouraged to do so. Why should they bother to if they don’t see a reward to it? As players who love these games, it is our responsibility to show our peers these games and teach them what we know about them. It is also going to be a big responsibility for developers and publishers to erase unfamiliarity of their games systems and characters. The Smash Dojo for Brawl is a good example of how to do this. Also, teaching new players how to take full advantage of a fighting game system so they can kick ass right away will have an even greater effect to draw in new fans and keep them. At the end of the day, if millions of people can learn how to play World of Warcraft and other MMOs, then I don’t see why they can’t be able to learn Guilty Gear and other niche and hardcore fighting games if taught correctly.
altegenesis: I am pretty sure FatalFuryD is well aware of what EFZ is 
MAGUS: EFZ looks meh mainly because its a very old game. It was first released around 2000.
Which brings me to my main question. Besides Guilty Gear (which struggled a lot) why did it take so long for these kind of games to be given a chance? And of all games, why was Arcana Heart the one given the chance?
EFZ was released, had three upgrades, and almost no one noticed; close to zero people took it seriously. Melty Blood was ignored for years until Act Cadenza was released. Immaterial and Missing power still hasn’t had its big break (read: outside the Tohou community) despite having a very interesting system. Then you have more recent games which never got much attention or only had 15 minutes of fame (Akatsuki, Monster, etc). The question is no about if the game is good or bad, but rather if the game is given a chance to determine if its worthy to play. What makes Arcana Heart so special?
Hmph… It would’ve surely killed them to add a couple of penises into the sea of estrogen, lol
Otherwise… inbetween thumbs up and down
Aside from the fact that you can’t find these games in the US, the constant rush down/combo centered gameplay turns me off. So yeah, I’m with others in wanting more “traditional” style gameplay (i.e. ST or 3S).
You make some pretty valid points there. Agree with the hype machine making a game popular. I dunno how a game like SCIV will end up playing, but you can bet with Vader and Yoda, the amount of T&A it has plus the amount of press it gets the game will sell a million units.
This statement you wrote.
Reminded me of what JChensor wrote in his blog last year titled “Evolution 2007 Season Wrap Up”. In it he wrote, it’s a strong community that makes for a strong game.
As long as the skilled players help out the newcomers, and promote the game either by hosting tournaments, writing FAQs, etc and if the players genuinely cared for the game’s survival then any game should be able to grow despite the shortcomings it might have from a lack of marketing or steep learning curve.
so uh… lol EFZ promotion hijack?
Highly recommend Akane or mio matches if you want to see what EFZ is capable of. Jabel you got a match video link I can borrow? Nothing in that game is original, but it has a little bit of pretty much everything. Every character is also a tribute to a “real” fighter, for instance, shiori is an interesting upgrade to Iceman.
In EFZ it’s possible to do:
Dubble buffering, empty cancel(karacancel), overheads, tick throws, throw combos, fireball crossovers via SF3, OTGs, Air Combos, Sabaki(yeah, like the one in KOFMI), roman cancels and blue roman cancels, air guard break, wall bounce combos, EX specials and more to name a few. They did a lot to make it MUGEN ish, except through numerous patches, they’ve mostly succeeded at balancing the issue out. Try it out if you don’t mind an “anime” fighter that actually is pretty fast paced.