American Government Thread 2: RIP John McCain, 81

General Discussion
1546

i didn’t answer because

  1. the question was redundant.

he’s right. no one was advocating such a position, including myself.

  1. the question was a deflection. for example



notice the pattern? the house gop shits the bed on two immigration bills in part because trump undermined both bills after asking congress for a immigration fix after he shit the bed in the first place due to his policy decision. so, trump in turns deflects blame and the conversation away from his fuck-up by manufacturing an false position like open borders. i didn’t take the bait, but i suppose others did given how some people are talking about it in this thread like it’s a thing. it’s not a thing. also, the question you should be asking is what kind of person allows themselves to get finessed by a clown who failed thousands of fact checks?


whos man is this?



and to the surprise of no one. the facts do not support your claim.


Close the borders? lol…i even mentioned trump made the same insane suggestion to his DHS Secretary and you still run up in here to co-sign it? historically, trump’s brand of xenophobia and anti-immigration fervor is very old, but the fact you still have people gullible and hysterical enough to fall for it is pretty hilarious.

  1. it’s not a crime to seek asylum
  2. the government has a legal obligation to provide protection to those who qualify under U.S. immigration law and as a signatory under the 1967 Protocol.
  3. there was a system in place that distinguishes between asylum claims with merit and ones that should be denied.
  4. trump went full retard and decided to make it harder for people to seek asylum legally, criminalizing the process with his “zero tolerance” policy and is suggesting the suspension of due process. speaking of which

you already got finessed by trump’s open borders bait. you want to officially cosign this too? you know you want to. trump is trying to restrict and reduce the pathways of legal immigration on all levels including the hb1 and h4 visa holders you were all up in your feelings about and you’re mad at mexicans? lol…you’re up in here claiming you’re not a stan, but your behavior of cosigning says otherwise. in fact, your behavior is quite cultish.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/02/12/right-now-merit-based-just-means-fewer-immigrants/#636c3d188e84


trump stans failing fact checks just like their cult leader. anyway, i’m glad to see you stans back because reading your posts is like watching diego maradona at the world cup.



1547

Both sides are getting a bit retarded now. No, you can’t have closed borders, you need some permeability to allow the transfer of goods, services, talent, ideas, etc or America will stagnate. And no, you can’t have open borders due to security issues, invasive species, the risk of foodborne illnesses, etc. Obviously, we need some kind of balance here but everyone is so ideologically entrenched its impossible to have a discussion.

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1548

There is so much logically, factually, and even historically wrong with what he’s spewing, that it is almost enough to put a person at a loss for where to begin deconstructing it. He is not just making castles in the sand housing massive clumps of cat shite, he’s build the castles from cat shite whole cloth.

Humanity didn’t start in poverty. It started in a mindset far, far removed from the modern cancer that is the concept of private property. From the Native America values, to ancient European values straight unto the days of Thomas Jefferson, the majority of people re: non-sociopaths, understood that what was THEIRS, was what they actually, personally used for their daily lives, and that which in turn they enriched for others after.

And that’s just the tip of the turd portcullis he’s pushing out when he ought to be turtling.

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1549

“Ad hominem. Motherhood statement. Ad hominem.”

You got an actual argument? Or do you seriously mean to, say that Hunter gatherers were not living in poverty because they were rich in soul or communal spirit or some other humbug bullshit?

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1550

Trump does not know what buttons to push so he goes and says random lies to push some bullshit.

His tv detractors and Huckabee just look and sound stupid trying to explain his flops

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1551

What would be the benefit of having totally open borders like you obviously want but don’t have the balls to say?

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1552

What does the word ‘poverty’ mean to you?

1553

Pretending somebody else has an extremist position is weird and doesn’t get us anywhere. By your token, you want totally closed borders, and I don’t think anybody here is so dumb as to think that that’s where you stand.

Immigration policy is a fucking nightmare, which is why we still don’t have it right yet and never will. You come up with any plan and there’s going to be a lot of people who are pissed off and disappointed. Generally we try for the least bad plan possible, where ‘least bad’ is defined by the people currently in charge of the government.

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1554


mad.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-social-security-trust-fund-goes-bust-1528411768




https://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.nr0.htm/Labor-Force-Characteristics-of-Foreign-Born-Workers-Summary

seriously, there are long term policy consequences of reducing immigration. i’m not talking about open borders or closed borders or whatever tangent some of you people seem to be fixated on. i even mentioned this in earlier postings, but i’ll consolidate it for future reference.

h ttps://forums.shoryuken.com/t/the-ame-ican-government-thread/178807/26033
h ttps://forums.shoryuken.com/t/the-ame-ican-government-thread/178807/25752

anyway, the extreme, anti-immigration policy goals of trump’s are simply bad economic policy. the population of baby boomers who are either approaching or are in retirement is growing. they have higher life expectancies. the US birth rate has been declining for decades. it’s highly unlikely younger men on that MGTOW, incel, colored pill nonsense will develop the game to produce the necessary replacement population of workers.

which means the country faces lower economic growth, higher healthcare costs, increased retirement spending and after the boomers pretty much fucked future generations with their tax policies. there is also the deficit and debt. the only reason we’re not sliding off a cliff into an aging crisis compared to other developed countries like japan, s.korea, spain, europe, etc is because the effect is mitigated by immigration. immigrants tend to be young. they have a higher rate of labor-force participation than the native born population. they have more kids than the native population. our health care system is heavily reliant on foreigners. more importantly, they pay taxes, medicare and social security. in short, we need to get that paper and some you people are repeating history on that “the immigrantz are taking our jerbs” shit like it’s 1882. fear, hysteria and slogans like “MAGA” isn’t going to pay the bills nor is it a viable solution to a complex economic problem.

conversely, the trump administration seems to think we can not only reduce immigration and the drag on economic growth with an increasingly aging population, but increase and sustain it after blowing a bigger hole in the deficit with a massive tax cut for the wealthy. which will miraculously pay for itself with what? the magical thinking of supply side economics and an army of immortal clones? taking grandma out to the backyard to put her to sleep before her medicare and SS kicks in? trump economic advisor and supply sider larry kudlow recently stated the,"federal deficit is coming down. And it’s coming down rapidly.”.

shocker! another administration official, living in an alternate universe, gets caught in yet another easily demonstrable falsehood with a 5 minute fact check. who knew?

PSA: i’m not advocating taking grandma out to the backyard and pulling a wolfgang krauser oh her. that was sarcasm. i’m just putting it out there because you know…it’s srk.

1555

Wow going alt right real quick

1556

…tell me, @TheDoctaMario, what have you learned here, by trying to continue to participate in this thread? :man_facepalming:

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1557

I love using labels too! Saves me from all the hard stuff like parsing through arguments, thinking and typing.

1558

Mr Punk, pretty much hit it on the head. Our government needs a fresh supply of people to keep it running with taxes. And as those people that we get to migrate here age, have kids. Guess what, we’ll need even more immigrants to off set those people when they get old.

So what is the democrats solution? Kick the population bubble down the road and let someone else deal with it. Not like we already have trouble feeding and giving medical treatments to those that are already in this country…

We only need immigrants because in some form most of you are addicted to big government. A government that is going to fail some day. When that happens who will you blame? Democrats for perpetuating the problem? Or Republicans for not letting enough people in so you can continue to kick the population bubble along?

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1559

i think unions are good in certain jobs and certain countries. i don’t believe a one size fits all, hey you must pay dues even though you don’t even want to be part of a union is a good idea, so dont see any problem with the ruling

wait wait wait, you were just going on about how corporations are evil and only care about extracting a profit but you were against the seattle head tax? cause i didn’t even bother responding on FB news feed, because even though i’m asian, i would’ve been called out on my white privilege and for being a nazi. on that note i genuinely feel sorry for brentobox who i feel is 1000x more brave for coming out on facebook as a white dump supporter in seattle, then say caitlin jenner for cutting his dick off and turning it into a vagina. he’s told me he’s already lost a lot of friends, and i know for sure who one of those close friends was. pretty sad.

if you read my past posts in the politics thread, i do believe that automation will wipe out most jobs in the next 20 years, so some new solution will be needed. what i’m hoping for is that technology, which so far has been made cheaply available to all, will continue to lower the cost of living. unions? other than a few use cases, it really just protects incompetent lazy workers who should really have been fired. so in that way, i am not a rabid “lulz free market solves everything!” in general i think the markets are better than government regulation/intervention, which usually makes the problem worse. however i do see that within capitalism lies the seeds of its own destruction (focus on profit -> automation -> unemployed people -> no one to buy shit)

1560

i’m not advocating that we have a deportation squad that goes door to door looking for existing illegals and boots them. that’s big government nazi shit. all i’m saying is, if someone gets caught illegally coming in, boot them. if an illegal has committed a crime and gets caught, boot them.

EDIT: i even have friends who came here illegally. i did not report them to the gestapo. (im a legit US citizen tho who immigrated here the hard way. MURICA!!!) but i also have friends from china/india who are struggling to stay in the USA on work visas, and some who have to make the hard choice of breaking up with their long term gf who cannot come to US or going back to China. its not fair to them that you can illegally cross the border if youre mexican and you have an army of SJW who cheer you on and attack anyone who doesn’t

(tried to find a non conservative source and got this article)
“De Blasio Slammed For Characterizing Drunken Driving As ‘Minor Offense’ Not Warranting Deportation”

Yeah apparently the mayor thinks illegals doing DUIs should NOT be deported. ten bucks says anyone who disagrees is called a misogynist transphobic nazi.

for the record, i hate sjw and nazis, but the sjws are really getting on my nerves more these days. sorry but when dudes in office are saying illegals doing DUIs shouldn’t be deported, its pretty clear to me they just want to have open borders. that will be funny to see the SJWs cannibalize themselves - Mothers against drunk driving which has become a feminazi group vs the illegal DUIs plowing children to death - which side will the SJWs support now???

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1561

The head tax and many modern methods of seeking funding are broken. The tax system in Washington State is terrible. That’s got naught to do with any particular business.

That guy lost friends for being a racist douche not for his political affiliations. Don’t sugarcoat what happened or make him out to be a victim.

“they just want to have open borders”
Speak for yourself and your positions. Making up extremist bullshit that “someone else” believes is stupid. Stop it.

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1562

The ruling might actually improve unions in all honesty

But right to work states are already pretty fucked as far as workers rights go

We already have a tough immigration process

Streamlining it and making it quicker to attain status as a permanent resident extending visas solves that problem of people overstaying even though they went through the right way of maintaining their status.

We are reading stories of people who check in at ice like they are supposed to getting arrested and put in holding without the ability to contact a lawyer.

We have a lady in jail for voting because she didn’t know her status in Texas. She goes to jail minimum 10 years.

How fucked is the legal system

That Donald Jr. Is registered in 3 states and votes and shit does not happen

1563

it seemed everybody loved the head tax. the stranger was lavishing praise on it, condemning the businesses that were against it, and crying after it got struck down. amazon is evil, making everything unaffordable and raking in the monies (actually it gets reinvested directly back into R&D), so they had to be taxed into oblivion! headtax seemed to me to be a win/win. it would have driven business out of seattle, which would have made housing affordable. businesses win/ communists win. i mean amazon is already copying boeing playbook and leaving to start HQ2 so the communists have won anyway. its a stark contrast. in seattle often times i just told people i worked at an online bookstore, cause i had already dealt with many triggered SJWs in the past who were foaming at the mouth. now that i’m on the east coast, with the exception of the crazed liberals in new york city, i haven’t noticed that much hostility toward amazon

meh i talked to brentobox a coupla times after he came out, none of his views struck me as particularly racist, just conservative. i mean, according to seattle peeps i’m a nazi misogynist racist transphobic bigot too, so i guess its all relative. everyone was cool with brentobox before he came out the closet, but now he is shunned. after talking with him, really the only difference between me and brent is i am not a dump supporter. i’m a fan of how dump triggers SJW, but that’s not what the presidents job is.

regarding open borders, i linked an article from a non conservative source where mayor stated DUI was not grounds for deporting illegals. when i first heard it i thought it had to be fake news conservative propaganda, but nope. i also have seen video clips of people calling for the abolishment of ICE. if there is no enforcement of immigration, then how is that any different from having open borders? here is liberal news source CNN:

i know for sure samantha bee has praised this on her show and can probably dig up a clip if you want. anyway, given the way the sjw cry over illegals, the way they want to abolish ice, think that DUIs are no big deal, its not that hard to extrapolate their actual position. its kind of like repealing the second amendment. my intellecutally honest leftist friend on FB came out and said he wants to abolish it, and i respect him for his honesty, whereas the other leftists pretend they don’t.

1564

right to work laws are fine, nobody should be compelled to join anything. just have a provision so that those who aren’t part of union don’t get any of the benefits that were won by the union. that way, if unions are actually useful, ppl will naturally want to join.

yes the legal immigration process needs to be fixed. and both blue collar/white collar legal immigrants should be welcomed with open arms, while illegals should be shunned. edit: that being said i do not support deporting people who have already lived in the country a long time. as long as they’re paying taxes and not committing crimes

no it is not ok to detain people indefinitely.

how does a lady not know wtf her status is? why are illegals voting. only us citizens should vote. the story sounds fishy. are you referring to this one?

chick is a felon serving time for tax fraud. felons should not be able to vote. she tried to vote. hence more jail time. the fact that she is already in jail for tax fraud leads me to believe she tried to pull a fast one. even liberal CNN seems to corroborate this:

i dont see anywhere where it mentions her illegal immigrant status? this seems to be just about the fact that felons can’t vote. this is pretty common sense and a good thing. the article does mention she tried to play the victim card by saying she was targeted for voting hilary. hilarious because her story is actually an example of voter fraud for hilary loooool. felon crying about being a victim gross. no pity

1565

Somebody was very offended by the usage of the highly derogatory term Stan. Don’t be a dick: it doesn’t help anything.

the stranger was lavishing praise on it, condemning the businesses that were against it, and crying after it got struck down.

*citation needed







https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/05/14/26173119/councils-compromise-with-mayor-durkan-on-head-tax-cuts-original-rate-nearly-in-half




https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/06/11/27464043/5-takeaways-from-the-city-councils-impending-head-tax-repeal


It would be laughable to pretend that the current taxation system in place in Washington State is rational: I don’t think you are making that claim. If you are, those articles cover it. Something needs to be done, but what that is is unclear in a complicated world. Thoughts and prayers I guess.

It’s weird that you talked to the white guy and trusted him when other people tell you specifically that he took specific racist actions, but are happily willing to distrust the brown people. You’re wrong, he fucked up. Whether that is or isn’t who he is as a person is is his call, but everything I know is he outted himself hardcore. You’re wrong, though, and it is really disgusting to watch anybody defend that. “he told me he was in the right” … please. What happened is in the past: you reference a specific reaction to some pretty specific asshole behavior. If you want to pretend like everybody but him is magically wrong, I can’t help you. This isn’t the place to discuss this: I’m not going to discuss this further.

also have seen video clips of people calling for the abolishment of ICE. if there is no enforcement of immigration, then how is that any different from having open borders?

Emphasis on the last part.

“DUIs are no big deal”
That’s specifically not what he said. This seems to be a disconcerting theme in our discussions so far.

“whereas the other leftists pretend they don’t”
… I can’t tell if you’re serious or trolling. I’m going to presume you’re trolling: I’m sure you’re aware that different people can have different positions.

This conversation has been pretty painful.