Am I missing something in connecting the MC Cthulhu?

Tech Talk
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Admittedly, I’m only here because this is the only way I can find information of getting a right-handed joystick made right is here, because the last off-the-shelf right handed stick was the Beeshu Genesis Gizmo. It was the best performance enhancement, even beating a future star gamer famous for appearing on and winning National Cable Televised multi-game competitions in the mid 2000s before he was famous, not just for me, but for all our common friends.

So I have a lot of joysticks to bulid to make right handed. People suggested to save money and labor, buy a Multi Console PCB. I was looking for one, and found a Toodles MC Cthulhu.

Now I may be a noob when it comes to electronics, but I assume the screw terminals are where you hook up wires to uncoded joystick and button signals. They are not labeled, but I assume the guy who I’m hiring can find an insturction book about which terminal represents which function.

The one thing that stumps me is the fact that the RJ45 males won’t fit in the only hole. I assumed it was an RJ45 female at the end by the description. It looks like a USB full-size B female end.

Is there something else I need to get it working with my RJ45 (to be as generic a possible) male hookup to the various consoles I own?

I own the PC/Mac/PS3 connector, and that has a USB A Male end and RJ 45 Male on the other, and THAT looks like it doesn’t fit.

Is there a missing piece I must buy to get USB B full-size male to work with the RJ45? Can someone link it?

I thought I might have gotten the wrong thing, but the device has the work Cthulhu engraved on it.

Also a question about te design I’d like to ask @Toodles: Knowing now that the primary connection is a USB B Full Size Female, and not an RJ45 Female, does the USB connector have 15 of more independent “lanes of data”, or does THAT also have only 8 lanes. If the USB B Female has 15+ lanes, then you don’t have to redesign the chip to have a dual-RJ45 connector to achieve those systems like 3DO, Genesis, Jaguar, the Atari 5200, and all those other DB 9 encoded systems. Just use the 8 default lanes as the primary, ie solid color, and the second is secondary, ie striped, and make a dual RJ45, and just use the solid one for the already defined systems and use the extra lanes for Genesis and other systems.

Finally, some people are implying that the Toodles is programable, so that you can define an SNES as:

L X R
Y B A

as opposed to:
Y X L
B A R

Finally, Is there a way I can set the SNES (and when I get it, the Xbox Prime) to what I want without reprogramming the device, or rewiring the device every time I want to go to and from the SNES If there is, I’d like to know it. Would a standard USB B Male to USB A Male and plug it into my Macintosh and enter some sort of debug mode. it would save me time and money, and not over asking my labor source who might be busy doing other things. I hope it’s not a PC only program.

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  1. The original MC Cthulhu is very old tech and is no longer supported. All the precious information on his website has been removed and a lot of it lost. Toodles hasn’t been on SRK for years so there’s no point tagging him. Jensens did a redesign version recently which comes with an RJ45 jack on it and is much easier to install, however this is also no longer supported.

  2. It was made at a time when it wasn’t practical to have an RJ45 jack on it. To get RJ45 signals you need to solder wires to the tiny holes below the screw terminals. You’ll need the instructions if going full RJ45 as the pinout is a little… unexpected:

https://paradisearcadeshop.com/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=30

The wiring instructions must be followed PRECISELY for it to work.

  1. Standard set up is running a cut RJ45 cable from the MC Cthulhu to an RJ45 jack like the Neutrik NE8FDP, then using custom made RJ45 console cables.

  2. USB > RJ45 connectors are unlikely to work as the RJ45 pinout needs to be in a specific order. You need to run the RJ45 pins directly from the MC Cthulhu.

  3. I don’t remember if the MC Cthulhu was programmable for certain consoles. It certainly isn’t made to have anything but official firmware flashed to it. Speaking of which you’ll need to update the MC Cthulhu before using it on legacy consoles. Again, good luck finding the firmware…

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I think not. Far as I know there no debug mode, at least I remember Toodles said there no room in the memory for a debug mode. If a custom output is needed, you would need to make custom firmware.

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You may need to contact paradise arcade to get the firmware, they still are in contact with Marcus a.k.a. Toodles. If they can’t I think I have the files on my computer somewhere. I just need a way to send it to you.

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You can upload the files to something like Dropbox and share it like that.

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Yeah, I’m digging around trying to find it. I must’ve been lucky and just got it before the website went dead dead.

P.S. it must be on my laptop in storage x.x I messaged paradise arcade and Marcus to see if there is some way to get the file.

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It came new from Paradise Arcade Shop. Just got it in the mail yesterday. I know use a USB B-> USB A plug to a PC (will a Macintosh without Windows as a secondary operating system work, or is this PC specific?)

The version is a version 1.4

I already downloaded the instructions, and I’ll call Paradise tomorrow.

Does the firmware for version 1.4 have Remappable buttons for SNES and Xbox Prime?

Also about firmware, is it programmable firmware, where you send in what buttons you want defined as what functions, and it spits out a custom firmware to your specs for the 1.4. I just need it programmed once, and mainly custom for the SNES and Xbox Prime.

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This page has instructions for rj45 connection: http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2018/12/retro-console-rj45-pinouts-ps360-mc.html

The latest MC Cthulhu firmware, 2.3: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O_37McbIq0c73fmEKhSoq4ygyeOOgWQs

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  1. Better to use a PC, you’ll have an easier time.

  2. We don’t think you can remap buttons on the fly (software method) with the MC Cthulhu unless physically changing which wires go to which buttons (hardware method). Why do you think this board has programmable buttons?

  3. The firmware is not alterable AFAIK

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  1. Unfortunately, that is kind of inconvenient, because from 1999 onward, when the internet was a big thing, and the only reason we upgraded from an Apple IIe and and Atari 800 XL, the only computers we even bought were Macintoshes. I tried using the PC mode with Virtual console, and it didn’t mess up, but was only barely useful fr a couple PC only Games. Then I used boot camp, and had the PC section messed up, I tried fixing it, but the phone in PC repair people “broke into my computer” and I didn’t like that feeling being a Mac guy. I couldn’t stop them or question them. They did things I was uncomfortable with, and I had to sever the connection and just erase the PC portion. Luckily the Mac portion is untouched, thanks to partition segregation.

  2. I though the USB port meant it can be programmed. So this brings up 2 questions.

a. Would a standard USB B Female-> USB A Male attached to a standard USB A Female-> RJ45 Female used for making cheap long USB cables. They usually come in pairs, One with a USB A Male and te other with a USB A Female on one end and an RJ45 female on the other, or is this a specialized, specific cable used only for Fight PCBs.

b. This problem why resoldering wires doesn’t work is because the Saturn, Dreamcast, PS2. and PS3 are right and obvious and work well for all games, not just fight games, but the SNES is at the “pad default” which works with Street Fighter out of the box, but for most games other than Street Fighter, the “joystick default”, used by Ascii, Capcom, and NIntendo’s Japanese Super Advantage makes sense for a larger collection of games, but not fight games directly. Luckily most fight games have button remapping in software, but Super Mario World and Contra 4, which don’t have controller adjustments, doesn’t work well with the pad default. Also the Xbox Prime makes no sense, because I thought it was

X Y WH L
A B BL R

But in actuality, it’s:

X Y BL WH
A B R L

I don’t understand the logic of this at all, especially if you look at my post here: https://archive.supercombo.gg/t/are-rj45-based-pcbs-adjustable/580087/2

The problem is if I adjust for SNES or Xbox Prime separately by wiring different holes, it will throw off the other systems that originally DID work. And according to the blogspot page, all the wires are encoded, which means one pin does not correspond to one input. So there is no way I can have it wired one way for Xbox Prime, another for SNES, and a third for the rest, and still have the circuit work.

The Logic of Xbox Prime

After looking at the Xbox prime remapping, it corresponds more a more literal PS2-> Xbox Mapping than more intuitive RJ45-> Duke remapping. Isn’t the whole point of the remapping is to remap to the intuitive buttons on the Duke and not a PS2 pad-> Xox Prime Pad uber literal remapping. After all, this is for a fight stick.

Even the Capcom 15th Anniversary fight stick doesn’t have perfect Xbox/Playstation parity. Perfect parity is achieved in the PS3/360 mapping since the PS3 matches the PS2 and the 360 matches theXbox Prime Layout if the Black and White Buttons were moved to the bumpers. The Black corresponds to the R1/RB and the White corresponds to the L1/LB and R and L correspond to R2/Rt and L2/LT.

Finally I see the twisted logic. :open_mouth:

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Like I said in the last post, its probably best just to have a separate padhack for your wants of SMW and as for the OG Xbox do the same thing. Unfortunately for you most people use the snes portion for fighting games (as what the MC Cthulhu was made for) and code was not implemented into it to do button remapping.

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  1. The USB is there for easy Xbox/PS3/PC connectivity. As said, you can flash the firmware but you cannot alter the firmware.

  2. The MC Cthulhu is not designed to work with USB > RJ45 adapters. You can try it if you like, but you’re gonna have a bad time. RJ45 signals must be carried from the strip below the screw terminals.

  3. You don’t need to desolder anything to re-map buttons, just swap the button quick disconnects to get the combination you want.

Why did you think the MC Cthulhu had the ability to re-map buttons via software? You have not answered this question.

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Answering the question, I thought the presence of a USB Port implied interface with a computer, hence implied reprogrammability. And I knew these devices contain PCBs, so I thought there could be a chance they were programmable.

The Filthypants blogspot posts shows how to make a USB-> RJ45 wire, and then the RJ-45 to the various consoles.

I just want to know if this USB->RJ45 is specific to Fight PCBs or whether it’s a generic USB->RJ5 adapter. The application MY ADAPTERS are used for is using Ethernet cables as cheaper longer USB cables. It preserves the function of the USB signal accurately. I just need to understand if the Filthypants USB->RJ45 adapter is specific for fight sticks or whether a generic one works. I bought mine on Ebay. I just don’t want to risk ruining the controller or the classic console if the ground or voltage is mapped to the wrong pin.

I’ll try Paradise Arcade shop today and see if they know a couple answers to questions, like how do I get the firmware on a Macintosh, and if a “Standard” USB->RJ45 works or if it’s specialized.

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I hate to do this, but this is going on for way too long.

@gahrling, I would not waste you time.
I, and a few others been over the whole RJ45 thing over with this dude a few times.
He is just not getting it.

The guy is out to reinvent the wheel without taking any time to learn the subject first.
It bad enough that a few modders have already refuse to give him service, so now he trying to DIY it going by just assumptions and pretty much ignoring any advice given.

@trippletopper, my best advice for you, take a step back and start small. Make a basic 6 or 8 button stick first for the few consoles you want to play right away (and not every console ever). Once you get that under your belt and you built skill and confidence then expand on your stick or build another one.

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I’m not sure if I’m understanding you correctly.

Are you trying to get multi console support by running a cable between the Cthulhu’s USB jack and an RJ45 jack? Because if so then that will not work.

You can only achieve this by soldering wires to the 8 pin strip on the board in the correct order. This could either be hardwired console cables or a single RJ45 cable running to a modular jack where you would plug in custom made console cables.

The Filthypants schematics are fine, I’m looking at this page for reference:

Also please don’t use the term “Fight Stick” to describe anything other than the MadCatz range of products. The correct term is “arcade stick”.

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I admit I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking the questions.

Also, asking to not call everything arcade stick that is digital a fight stick is a lot like asking people not to call facial tissue a “kleenex”, because you my have a Puffs. This coming from a site that focuses on fighting games, and certain members question why’d you use it for anything EXCEPT fighting.

Most games before the N64 play better on a fight stick, (not capitalized, not a single word) except stuff that is arrangement-specific like the shoulder buttons on F Zero, or the 4-way buttons/twin sticks on Smash TV that doesn’t translate well on arcade sticks.

The reason why I thought it might work is because you CAN hook up a USB B Male to USB A Male and get it to work on a PS3 or a Pc or a Mac. I thought the solder-ons were alternatives because USB B Male-> RJ45 females were not common. And saw the buld-your-own USB to RJ45 in Filthypants’s diagram. All of wha I said I read in Filthypants’s article, so that was a logical question. I just didn’t know whether that was the same standard wiring used in USB range extenders, or whether it’s specific to fighting PCBs. I thought I could save a few bucks in labor, if it did work, and if people were unsure, I made sure it was safe before trying, but since it is known it doesn’t, never mind.

And Yes, Paradise Arcade Shop has the firmware built in.

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Also, asking to not call everything arcade stick that is digital a fight stick is a lot like asking people not to call facial tissue a “kleenex”, because you my have a Puffs. This coming from a site that focuses on fighting games, and certain members question why’d you use it for anything EXCEPT fighting.

None of that makes any sense. This is a technical forum where the proper classification and product codes are very important, clear and precise details are imperative when troubleshooting or asking questions.

If you continue to use the nonsensical term ‘fight stick’ (sic) I will stop replying to you, it’s a personal bugbear of mine when people say that instead of ‘arcade stick’.

And yes… of course the MC Cthulhu has firmware built in, the question is which version? Unless it’s the last supported version then you will have to flash it yourself.

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@gahrling

Just to clear up: the ones we sell have the most recent revision since we get the chips from Toodles directly. All the chips are new chips. They all work for retro consoles out of the box with the obvious exceptions of having to manually add RJ45 support. It wouldn’t make any sense for him to supply us with older revisions of the firmware on new chips and then have to flash the chips with a newer firmware.

All the stock for MC Cthulhu currently available is new and manufactured by us so the need to update the firmware to get retro console support is a step you can skip now a days.

We still support the MC Cthulhu. We could probably use a centralized location for all the console pinouts, but as you noted, it’s difficult getting that information since much of it has been lost to the SRK Forum Void. I’ll see about getting that information centralized since it’s still a requirement to make full use of the board.

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Thanks for the reply.

The last known firmware revision from Toodles (version 2.3.1) contained two firmware files - the 1ms version and the 10ms version. Which one is installed on the boards you sell?

To be fair, a lot of the relevant information was lost when Toodles’ website got erased as the posts are still available on SRK… just not the important linked files and images.

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@gahrling

Actually, I didn’t know there was a 1 ms and 10 ms version. I’ll have to ask him. Bryan’s pretty picky when it comes to board timings so I would assume he wanted the 1 ms version and hoping that’s what he arranged. I’ll look into it and report back.

Agreed, the photos with the pinouts were the important and most of those are gone. At least the actual written pinouts are still there, at least last time I checked. Instead of photos, I can make diagrams. I just need time for all this stuff, lol.

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