Alpha Generations is a month away - Any Info?

Media Outlet Comic Book Forum
81

Heh, I have the US SF Cartoon, got the entire series for ten bucks. I won’t buy the SF Live Action movie EVER though…

I have to agree with Time_Stop on the sub vs. dub deal, but with less harsher words of course.

Just the fact that they cut out the word “Ansatsuken” (Gouken said it in the first OVA, it’s not subbed but they can’t block my ears from hearing it) in the first SFZ Anime’s Dub is reason enough for me not to bother with this Dub, I bet you Ansatsuken is cut out again which would be hilarious seeing that the movie is about… oh, I dunno… ANSATSUKEN…

But in general in subs the characters sound a lot tougher for the most part, the big comparison here is both Terrys in the Fatal Fury Anime. The one in the subs sounds really tough and close to his voice in the game the one in the Dub sounds like Michael J. Fox and nothing like his game voice. That’s usually the way subs come off to my ears.

82

Oh, come on – you have to buy it for the director’s commentary track. Listening to Stephen de Souza trying to explain how great his film is… fucking hysterical.

I was mildly surprised (even impressed) that Gouki was consistently referred to as “Gouki” throughout Street Fighter Alpha: Generations. I kept waiting for him to declare something like “from this day forward, I will be known as ‘Akuma’” once he fully committed to Satsui no Hadou, but it never happened (the name-change, that is).

–Chris

83

There’s also the deleted scenes in the Van Damme SF The Movie DVD, including the Chun Li/Cammy fight. (which btw, was the lamest fight I’ve ever seen in my entire life)

84

Hey now, I spent ten dollars on a movie ticket to see that live action nonsense on the first day, two dollars for the soundtrack from Book Off and that’s enough of that!

85

Wrong again as per usual Time_Stop.

I’ve found that no matter the medium, you should try to enjoy something in a form as close to your life and culture as possible. That’s why unless you are fluent in Japanese, it makes very little sense to import Japanese games. No matter how good the presentation or the translation of the subtitles, you’re STILL missing something from the experience.

You shouldn’t be READING movies or tv shows, because it distracts and detracts from the experience. It adds a LOT more to the experience and helps you connect with the story and characters to hear them speak in your own language. Always has, always will.

This is not an attempt to excuse piss poor dubs like Funiball Z btw. PM Azrael, he knows where I’m coming from on this.

“Dubs are for 9 year olds”, what a load bs from someone who ought to know better.

86

You, sir, speak nothing but truth.

87

…I was 12 when I was scarred by that terrible feature and 3 years later, I saw the TAM. A good way to heal… :3p:

As for sano…dood, you got owned. Was the US SF show any good? I could not bring myself to watching ANY of it

88

Any 16 years girl who can hold her own against seasoned martial artists, and learn chi focusing techniques that probably take years to master in the SF world just by watching people fight IS god tier in my humble opinion. She’s a fighting prodigee. With enough time and practice, she could become much powerful than Akuma. I guess this is why Capcom never did anything with her past her teen years. They just don’t know what to do with her. Or maybe the hints seen in her MSH VS SF or Sakura Ganbaru endings are true, and she gave up fighting, became a gym teacher and got married. :wink:

Now, about the dubs VS subs debate…
I really don’t know why dub fans become so insulting when we sub fans voice our opinion. To me, taking out the original japanese language is as stupid as, say, replacing the japanese artwork with new US animation. And it doesn’t stop with anime. The same goes for foreign movies. If I’m watching a japanese movie, I don’t want to hear the characters speak french. (I’m french canadian)

Let’s put it this way. As a french canadian living in quebec, I’m surrounded with theatres that will ONLY play french dubbed movies. Only one theatre I know in my area plays movies in their original english versions. It’s a bit farther from where I live, and more expensive too, but I will always drive the extra miles and pay more money to see these instead. So do you japanese-language version bashers consider me a 1337 otaku for wanting to see Bruce Willis speak with his original english voice, instead of settling for watching him dubbed in my native language?

What’s your take on this?

Really, I don’t have anything against dubs, I just don’t like 'em personaly. I just don’t understand the hate some people like to spread when it comes to the sub vs dub topic.

89

Heh, I don’t see how anyone could get owned here for expressing an opinion. I said I agree with Time_Stop on why I prefer subs with a less harsher intent which was my way of saying that I don’t think you should say dubs are for 9 year olds. The reason why I like subs as opposed to dubs I posted twice before. Heh, from what I gather from posts on this thread, people didn’t like the dub of SFA Generations. Sure, they hated a lot of other crap, that might not of saved it but it didn’t help. At the very least if people were reading it and they showed a subbed version there wouldn’t be any crowd outbursts because people would be busy reading and it seems this movie succumbed to a ‘mob mentality’ of sorts where everyone agreed it sucked (maybe it did suck, I wasn’t there). And maybe crap like Ryu needing to kill Gouki is not in the original Japanese/sub itself. In general, when you watch a sub of any Anime a lot of times the problem is the original intent of what the characters were saying is gone because that’s the only way some of the things the characters say can fit into English. Some prime examples, in the Fatal Fury Movie Dub Godamus tells the masked warrior “quit wearing that mask for a second” and in the Japanese version / sub he says “Stop using the masked warriors for now, they’ll lead to confusion.” Here is something that sort of is important to the story and explains why they stopped using the Masked warriors, you can’t fit all of this in a dub since the languages work differently, and “quit wearing that mask for a second” doesn’t even make sense, why would Godamus say that in the first place and if he did would the masked person take the oppurtunity to look down and clean his mask when Godamus would of told him that so he could look him in the eye? And then of course you have people purposely changing things for some inexplicable reasons because they think “This will be something the Americans can understand better” and this is NEVER justified, we are not stupid, we are able to research an obscure reference if we really want to understand it. I’m not even going to start in on how many times characters names are mispronounced or Japanese words are mispronounced, how in Japan these things are added voice with all of the seiyuus present and in the US people are playing off a recording most of the time making ill matches for dialog flow a lot of the time. Do Japanese tend to over act at times? Sure, but that’s there style, (watch their live action movies for some top notch over - acting) some of this stuff dubbed is under acted. Let me stress, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay under acted… but of course in the US we just don’t take Anime/Animation seriously and these dubbers are working something like 10 jobs at once and have to rap things up yesterday, the pay/environment is not really set up for good dubs making good dubs a rarity or a lucky accident or something like a Disney budget behind it to be good which again, is a rarity.

Simple solution, you can watch both versions on the DVD or either or.

But of course if you mean I got owned by spending 12 bucks on the live action movie you are so right. :rofl:

I’ll answer this much about the US SF cartoon, I watched the Final Fight and the Sakura episodes again, and the rest of the series is sitting on the bottom rack of all the DVDs I have to watch, those two were just about the only episodes I liked in the entire series.

90

Word, Sano. Word.

91

…Somebody, give this man rep points, please.

How far does the show go into the actual series? I would figure the SF II saga without any of the Super additions.

92

-comes back from watching Hong Kong DVDs with english subs-
you guys are fucking liars…dubs DO suck.

For the record, i’ve seen almost as many bad subs as i’ve seen dubs. Although it’s often literally acurate, it sometimes doesn’t make any fucking sense, and it makes you rewind and pause for a sec just so you can re-read and think about wtf they’re trying to say.

another reason why this debate is really REALLY stupid.

93

Yeah, it’s all a matter of tastes in the end. I just don’t want to lose the original voices, so I’ll settle for subtitles.

another thing I forgot to add in my earlier post : Could you guys imagine Darth Vader without James Earl Jone’s voice?

94

Oh, we never lied about dub suckage. In need of an edit much? :lol:

But in all seriousness Hong Kong movie dubs are about a gillion times worse than Anime dubs, they are the source of every other comedian’s comedy routine. “Hmph. You Killed my father. Hmph. Now you must die!” CLAP CLAP MORE WIIIINE!"

95

Sano whilst i’ll pay that Terry Bogard sounded a hell of alot like Michael J Fox in the Fatal Furt dub, that isn’t a bad thing. I think it works well. Common, you have to admit that the English voice actors behind most of the street fighter characters are usually spot on, namely Ryu, Ken, Bison, Vega and Guile. The only voices I can name that I think have been inappropriate are Cammy, Adon and Dan.

96

That’s a pretty interesting way of viewing things sano…

…except:

Translations even OFFICIAL ones are rarely going to be 100% accurate and universally accepted. As we’ve both seen first hand in talking about the plot guide what person A translates a line of text into, person B will translate it into something slightly different. The ONLY person who knows EXACTLY what that line would translate into in English is the person that originally wrote it and I gurantee you that individual is seldom if EVER involved in the translation process.

The other half of this problem is the lip-synch issue, Dub houses usually take care to match up the lines with the movement of the characters lips, something that is not present in the Japanese version. You’d be surprised how often the Japanese VA’s lines do not match their character’s mouth movements. Some of that is undoubtly due to production time but also because by and large they don’t care if it synchs up.

Now as fas the actors go, that’s a big time load of BS. Most English VA’s are STAGE actors first and foremost. Yes you get the odd actress like Wendee Lee (more on her in a moment) but these are people who do have acting experience though maybe not Voice acting experience. Now as the Japanse VA’s being better, that’s a real matter of opinion. Take a listen to the actress who plays I-No in Guilty Gear. If you’ve got sharp ears you can probably hear in at half a dozen other titles fairly easily. That’s because she plays the same role, OVER and over again.

And another point about the superiority of the Japanese VA’s, if my memory is correct, the creator of the Dirty Pair series PERSONALLY came to the states to help select the VA’s for the US dub (Which is extremely rare because most Japanese animation studios don’t care what happens once the series leaves Japan) but at the same time also pronounced the English voices for the Dirty Pair to be superior to the Japanese ones. The English dub for the first Vampire Hunter D movie is another case where the dub cast is widely accepted even by the Japanese to have turned in the better performance.

But perhaps the best example of this is the English Oh My Goddess dub where the roles of Kei and Belle were played by then a real life couple of Scott and Juliet. There’s a very apparent difference between their performance and the Japanese originals, a difference that most feel enhances the story greatly.

Ultimately the choice between dub and sub is a personal one but I don’t want to hear the excuses about one side being more accurate and faithful to the creator’s vision. Especially when most manga artists rarely have enough clout to get what THEY want in the series and usually get ticked at something changed for the anime version.

97

Oh, stage actors, yes, I’m aware of that. But they often don’t get to give their best performances and are toggling a bunch of jobs at the same time. On any DVD that lists the actors credits, the Ranma 1/2 box sets you can see all of the shows that are going on at the same time that they did. When you hear voice actors speak they often admit that they don’t have the proper time to prepare for rolls and say that themselves even on the Cowboy Bebop Movie they admit that they are given more time with a movie then said series. Often when voice actors speak on commentaries it’s pretty funny. They have no idea what’s going on with the characters in the storyline the stand out being compare the commentary on the second edition of the second Rurouni Kenshin OVA director’s cut of the voice actors to the bonus materials of the seiyuus talking. Again it’s the product of the environment. I’m aware that there are some actors who try to stay true to the Japanese Original like for example the person who dubbed Kenshiro for the new Fist of the North Star Anime but that’s not everybody and it shows but to run down a list of bad actors (bad acting in dubs only mind you) is going to be futile. Yes, they are stage actors. And many of them appear in movies too. You know why? Because just being a dubber here doesn’t pay that much most of the times unless you’re a superstar, they can’t make a career out of it. In Japan they can, more attention is payed to the craft IMHO because of this, they can actually work one job at a time, not ten. If you think these actors are bringing their ‘A’ game to an Anime Dub to a society that doesn’t take Animation seriously (and they themselves were raised in the same way) instead of a stage presence of Macbeth then lots of luck. But they do have the proper time to prepare and research Macbeth, that’s the problem.

As for the mouth synchs not matching up in Japan it’s because unlike say Disney the voices are added after the shows are animated, that’s why you have mouths flapping. To hate it is to almost hate Anime itself because that’s the way it’s been done since Astro Boy (original, Tetsuwan No Atom) and that’s never going to change. Instead of Animating everything to correspond with lip movements they take that time out to make everything look visually better, you just can’t have both with the usual 3 month schedule they have to bang 30 episodes out (In America sometimes the average is 13 episodes a year, but a lot of it is outsourced nowadays) or you wind up with something that looks awful like G.I.Joe and 80s Transformers which were Animated in Japan, they are better off with their own style. One exception where they recorded voices in Japan before they animated was Akira, but that took 4 years to make (not just because of that) and people don’t often have that time. On average it takes Disney 2+ years to bang out a movie,(but they ain’t messing with 2D anymore on the big screen) Japan takes a year on average.

And please, let’s not bring game dubs into this, that’s a whole other bag of worms I’m not even going to open my mouth about.

About Manga creators getting pissed off at things being changed, that happens in every medium. Most writers hate the movie adaptations of there books, and when they themselves get to do it like compare Stephen King’s The Shining TV special to the original movie, well, um, errr… sometimes I think they themselves can’t see that some things actually work better for different mediums. The bulk of Manga to Anime translations are not so good most of the time IMHO, I prefer reading a Manga version of something to watching the Anime to tell you the honest truth, it’s just that most of the time living in the US we often get exposed to the Anime first. Now with all of the Manga coming out here we are getting the chance to read the Manga first so hooray for us getting to experience some of these things normally. But not all Anime is based on Manga even though the bulk of it is.

But we are going in circles and who really cares. My point is that the dub for SFA Generations was bad as was said by people who saw it and maybe a sub is better. The only reason I made said point is after you insisted I don’t buy this new Anime based on what some members here said of this movie. Now, I love SRK, it is the greatest forum in the universe IMHO but I don’t often agree with what everyone says here. I like SF2V, CFJ, SVC Chaos, believe that SFZ1 > SFZ2, love all of the Rurouni Kenshin Animes including the OVAs equally, think that Quentin Tarantino needs to die and I hate it when Marvel was royally fucking up continuity (they improved some what) where everyone on the general discussion comic book thread was disagreeing with me and believed that Colossus coming back was a good idea. I will say however that even with trolls and what not I’ve had a lot less hassle expressing my opinions here than on other forums where every member and their momma ganged up on me which is why I say SRK is the greatest and I will defend it to anyone who says something bad about it to my dying breath. We don’t see eye to eye on everything but we shouldn’t have to, sort of makes the internet fun, this new Anime may yet be another thing I like and everybody hates. I wanted to get in the sub/dub argument even less than you did but here we are. I’m sure our grandchildren will continue the sub vs. dub argument…

98

The name is Kikuko Inoue. She’s mainly known for making soft spoken, cute characters in anime and games. (Belldandy in Ah My Goddess, Philia in Tales of Destiny). I-No was quite a departure from what she was usually known for. (I’ve heard she also played The Boss in the japanese version of MGS3? I wish I could hear how she sounded like…)

99

Do you… I guess want my personal opinion on this? Note that I will never watch SF2V in English, I’m just not going to watch an entire series of dubbing (DVDs of SF2V are terrible anyway, they cut out the original opening and ending credits for some techno nonsense but they didn’t get raped as bad as the SF2 Animated Movie did by swapping the music out, removing Gouki’s appearance, editing the movie even on the ‘uncut’ version and what not) so I can only comment on SF2 Animated Movie and SFZ.

Terry - Bad for reasons I stated earlier. Dubbing for game related Animes is extra hard because for me I have to believe the voice they make when they pull of game moves sounds like the one in the game. Well, now there’s an English Dub for KOF MI, I guess you can make a case for him sounding like that…
Ryu - Bad in the SF2 Animated Movie, pretty darn good in SFZ
Ken - Ditto
Bison(Cape) not too bad
Vega(Ninja) He has like what, one line in SF2? Who cares.
Cammy - See above. I can’t even knock the lack of an English Accent seeing as how now Capcom let out that she’s not British. They don’t have an excuse for not giving Deejay a Jamaican accent or no accents period but Japan never does accents either.
Guile - Terrible in the movie but his voice actor, that of Ryoga Hibiki (I think his name is Michael Donovan) is actually really good, even though Ryoga Hibiki’s seiyuu still owns his hide. I don’t know why he made Guile sound constipated.
Adon - A few lines, who cares.
Dan - Ditto.

Overall a lot of the SF dubbers worked on all of the SF Animes for the most part, a lot of them really got into their characters by the SFZ Anime and that is a much much much better dub than the SF2 Animated Movie. But with the removal of the word Ansatsuken and Birdy saying “What the dilly-oh?” I’ll stick to watching the sub…

100

I’m definitely on the “sub” side of “sub vs. dub”. It’s not that dubs are universally terrible, but 90% of them are horrid or, at the very least, inferior to the original langauge version. NOte also that this goes both ways: Anyone ever see Transformers the Movie in Japanese? It wasn’t that good; the english version was vastly superior.

I’ve seen bad subs, but they’re rare. So rare as to not really count. Uusally a bad sub is a show that wouldn’t be worth watching in any langauge.

Speaking of TF: Sano, in what warped reality did G.I.Joe and TFs have “bad animation”?