98/07/27 version is the good one. For A3
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So then… a… alpha 3 tournment.
^Exactly, I’m honestly sick of people saying ban this, ban this. It’s HSFA… Who gives a shit if A3 characters aren’t top tier?!
You failed to catch my point. There’s 3 other threads for SFAA. That means there were 3 threads that you could’ve put up this question. SO, I’ll save you the trouble and merge it.
Alpha 2 characters are not so bad. Actually … I would say they’re about on par with Alpha characters if you throw in exclusive use of the CC (I guess Alpha characters compensate with increased damage and ability to chain combo). A select amount of Alpha 3 characters are good, namely the top tiers from Alpha 3 itself (ie: V-ISM). A-ISM kinda blows the big one though I guess. From that though, a CE vs. Alpha vs. Alpha 2 vs. select Alpha 3 is still very possible.
Finally got around to watching the YouTube vids. Seems consistent with A3 juggle system from what I’m seeing. A2 Chun’s lighting leg hits longer probably because it’s A3 Vega she’s fighting…had it been an A1/A2/CE character, the juggle might have been shorter. Akuma’s CC whiffs in the corner because he’s leaving holes, or maybe because the hurricane kick CCs are completely gone in HSFA because of a netural state after them, can’t really be sure.
CCs do have neutral states (which is why the corner CC in the video doesn’t work) it’s just that there’s no juggle limit midscreen, so it doesn’t matter as much.
A2 Chun’s lighting leg might be an infinite, post-CC, but it’s hard to say- it can only juggle for so much time, which is why it isn’t an infinite in A2…in adition to A2 characters not being as easy to juggle as A3 ones, they also have moves which don’t juggle as well. If it were an infinite (and I’m pretty sure it isn’t), it would only work vs A3/DS/SF3/S-ISM characters. Someone posted a vid of throw->super working on an A3 character, but not on an A1 character. It would be something like that.
I think James Chen wrote a big guide on A2 juggle systems, in addition to the huge A3 one…even if not, he probably mentioned how it worked somewhere in the big CvS2 guide he did.
The first vid I posted is evidence that CCs don’t adhere to neutral state rules during CC… Or more likely, CC mode avoids neutral states by default a la Cody’s X-ism super.
At the end of the vid, I do extremely sloppy standing shorts during CC midscreen, and they all juggle. This is facing an Alpha 1 character. They behave like classical-ism, meaning, when trying a VC against them if you reach a neutral state everything afterwards will whiff and they drop to the ground (as you know).
If neutral states applied, that CC shouldn’t have worked (and short hurricane xN shouldn’t work either, but it does). So the reason for the corner whiffing can’t be neutral states as far as I can tell, because CCs don’t seem to be restricted by them. It must be something else.
It’s not an infinite, I just mentioned it because I’m curious as to why it’s NOT an infinite… because if the neutral state thing is in effect it should be one right? I can only get them to hit 16-17 times post-CC. Maybe there’s a hit limit?
In A2, the lightning legs won’t juggle AT ALL in the same situation. they whiff completely. A2 CCs obviously have different rules. In HSFA, it works only if you start the lightning legs before CC ends.
I guess you could treat all this as evidence that CCs in HSFA juggles are like Cody’s X-ism super and avoid neutral states?
Infinites are infinites as far as I can tell in HSFA versus any -ism/mode. Although, shadow hit setups elude me VS non-A3 characters?
The lightning legs thing also works against non-a3 characters.
Treat non-A3 -isms like Classical mode. So naturally there are things that will juggle against A3 characters and not others (like how a lot of juggles don’t work against classical-ism). What was the situation of this combo?
A3 only? So I can use Shin Akuma? Awesome see you at the next tournament.
Also what’s the difference between the various Sakuras? the red version seems the same as the normal version, to me?
Word at the time was that Brandon Lee was wanted to play Fei Long. When Lee was killed filming The Crow, they just dropped the idea of having Fei Long rather than pick someone else…
I was under the impression that banning is for gamebreaking stuff, glitches that subtract from gameplay, secret characters who are overpowered, et cetera…
Why don’t you people just ban the whole god damn game, for fuck’s sake?
But you’re not doing a VC against them… You’re doing a CC. VCs are designed to abide neutral states, CCs aren’t, that’s where the difference is coming from. That’s why you can do it against those characters.
The reason A2 CCs don’t abide by neutral states should be because they have no recovery system to respond to the neutral states. Mid screen it doesn’t matter about neutral states because the CC system it’s self works like that (unlike the VC system). But being in A3’s “outside” laws, the corner juggle limit is still in effect, thus causing an effect on the CCs. Take what Master Akuma said for exaple.
A2, Akuma. You activate in the corner, short hurricaine to pop them up then you can DP at your will. Hyper, you’re in A3’s enviroment. You now have new things to take into concideration, the one on topic, the wall juggle limit. Mid screen it doesn’t matter because you’re in open water, you have no other outside A2 disturbances besides say an A3 character. According to the CC system everything is normal.
Hyper, A2 Akuma. You activate in the corner, short hurricaine to lift them up, now the juggle limit is active. Since this new law that the CC system never usually has to encouter is enforced, it must be respected to do what you want to do. Mid screen you don’t have this disturbance. When you dragon punch to knock them up, if you land and don’t cancel in the recovery, any juggle attempt will fail. You can try this your self, when you’re coming down from the DP, if you cancel while he’s still in the rcovery just as he lands, the DPs will still connect.
Okay, the chun-Li thing?
You activate the CC, LL them in the corner, cancel to AA, cancel to LL in the recovery of her landing. Straight away they hit the corner and the juggle limit is activated, but you don’t return to a neutral state. You continue in an active state through the CC into a normal attacking state. Since you’ve never returned to a neutral state that last juggle has never fully been activated. If you hadn’t have canceled the LLs in the recovery of her AA, you would have hit a neutral state and any attempts to juggle afterwards with LL will fail.
In A3 there’s also another oddity where if a character get’s to a certain low height they can’t be juggled. You’ll see in the video, when they fall out of the “trap” they’re in they bounce up, but they fall lower every time. When you catch them on their way down and “trap” them slightly again, once they’re released they’ll fall below that certain height and become imune to juggles.
Edit: Also I’m sure I heard HSFA actually has a limit where crouch cancels will whiff after so many…
What do you mean exactly?
Red version sakura (marvel ism which is you highlight classical hold start and press left or right until it looks like it’s not selected)…hmm well try doing: square, square, forward, x, r2
I think that considering the circumstances…maybe a A3 tourny is the only logical step to take. The truth behind the matter is that HSFA is a novelty…i doubt it was ever intended to be anything serious or competitve. If there r tournies it will only have to be by a game to game basis(no HSFA). I could go at incredible lenght over how broken and overpowered some characters r…this game doesnt reflect the ability of the player but rather the cheese of a character(cough…A1,A2 ken) thus this completly kills the competitve environment if u ask me.
For a novelty, there was definately alot of thought and planning put into HSFA. I still think it’s too early to state what’s broke or overpowered.
I keep referring back to roll cancelling in CvS 2 and Cable’s AHVB X 3 in MvC 2 as an example; don’t underestimate players’ ability to adapt.
We won’t know what’s broken and underpowered until there are several high-level tournaments for this mode.
And even then, that in itself is no guarantee. I can’t remember another game where you can play at least 6-10 different versions of the same character (and HSFA has how many characters total? 34 I think?).
So… you’re saying that midscreen, CCs aren’t affected by A3 neutral state rules (they can’t be).
BUT!
When you reach the corner, neutral states, and A3’s corner juggle limit apply? As retarded as I think this sounds, It -does- explain what happens.
Yeah I figured this because it only works post-CC if you start the LL before CC ends. It retains its CC juggling properties because you don’t reach neutral state?
But, during CC, you can reach a neutral state and still do the lightning leg thing. This is also still consistent with A3 corner rules. The corner juggle limit is a rule that only activates when you reach neutral state, and it gives you one MORE opportunity to juggle. So you can sweep, reach neutral… then do lightning legs (one more juggle) and it still works.
The A3 rapid-fire-weak-attack limiter is also there as well.
(Another thing about the lightning legs. There seems to be a 17-hit juggle limit on them during CC. You can only get 17 hits, then they drop through.)
I just find it retarded that when OUTSIDE of the corner, none of these rules seem to apply.
I got to sit down with the game for a about a hour and tested some things…
Umm yea I messed with the dip switch settings I still cant get guys dizzys and redizzys to work. SURE I can get them in ALPHA1, but if im playing A1 guy in hyper its just not working… Someone needs to give me the exact dip switch settings, cuz if its been posted I missed it…
Also cody and sodom got the shaft in hyper. They can be juggled by a ton of shit that no other character can get juggled by. Examples being any kinda regular throw to most super just works vs them for some reason. Hell sodom say vs sodom can do his SPD then juggle after it! WTF retarded… Tons of shit like this. Theres some deffinte bizare juggles vs them that only work vs them.
As for guy stuff(since I mostly tried random stuff with him)…
A1 guy In hyper yea I guess I was doing bushin chain to punch super vs A3 characters cuz vs them it works easily. Dizzy combos and redizzys dont seem to work. Hell the stand fierce after stand roundhouse is wierd, and the overhead run move just doenst seem to combo off distances you would use it for the dizzy type combos. Again I guess I dont know the right dip switch, its fine if im playing A1 but in hyper… no go… Sodom and cody can be juggled by a ton of shit that shouldnt be possible a1 sodom all the way through a3. Hell I can land a air throw vs sodom half screen away and a punch super will juggle…
…
I shoulda tried juggling after a alpha counter I wonder if you could lol. Rose for some reason doesnt appear to be able to be jugglable off a bushin throw, to punch super… Hrmm maybe I was fucking it up… I only tried a few times. Guys slide also seems to slide to far… I dont remember it slideing this far in A1. Also guys grab does not grab as easily as it did in A1.
A2 guy in hyper is not correct that I remember… IIRC in A2 guys duck fierce was only cancleable if it hit close to him in the early starting frames, yet in this game I can cancle it at any distance. I didnt try the game A2 it self, but in hyper this was the case. Also vs sodom and cody you can juggle after the qcb+p with super yadda yadda. Pretty ridiculous. Pretty powerfull for a bread and butter type combo.
On to playing in A1 it self. Im not to sure A1 is totaly correct ethier. In A1 guys run stoped automaticly further away that I remember, so you didnt have to cancle it, and you didnt have to worry about stuttering, so it was much easier to run cancle and leave yourself at the advantage. You could get stuff like close mp, stand hp, run and youd stop automaticly. In this game it wasnt working(didnt seem to work in hyper ethier with A1 guy), sure you can get it with a close stand fierce, but no multiple attacks into it. Guy will run right next to them. So you have to do it manualy…
Dum…
Stand fierce doesnt seem to wiff. In A1 I thought it was possible to wiff your stand fierce, in this I never had this problem. It always hit.
Bushin throw to punch super wasnt working on guy for some reason… Random.
I also think in this(as well as hyper)guys run slide seemed a tad different. He seemd to be slideing to far to me. Maybe it was my imagination… Maybe.
Anyway thats all Ill touch apon for now, since a lot of the other stuff has been touched apon. Im sure theres other random juggle stuff and some cool stuff but I didnt play the game for to long just looked and tested some random things. I think the character sizes are a tad fucked up or something and thats why some of this weird shit is happening.
oh yea A1 guy in hypers lk hurricane kick seemed to hit 3 times on block, it should only be able to hit twice that I recall.
So is this verison of all the ALPHAS arcade perfect?
No!