He misses on purpose. The reason why he uses so many time this special is try to confuse the slow Dhalsim player… Maybe he is trying to keep Dhalsim on the ground; maybe he is toying with him. He uses level 1 because that’s the best way to use this super. The reason why he “hit only one time and tend to runs away” is because of the recovery. If you are close to Dhalsim, you will get punished by a super.
I didn’t watch that video for a while, but I think that’s pretty much what I think is happening.
Yeah I like Daigo game style. He obviously knows what he is doing. But he should not be like a reference for the meaning of life. BTW, the only difference between his 1998(!!) Gen and my Gen is the experience, the ratio win/lose, and the fact that I play a lot more fancy.
ok I swear Ive asked questions along these lines a million times already, but here goes again.
Every time I try to play a3, I get pissed off that my anti airs work so inconsistently. I play X charlie and X ryu.
with ryu i can always strong dp, so lets talk more about charlie.
I now understand that standing jab will mysteriously anti air jump ins that are high up, ie, when they jump from close to you. is there a follow up that will always connect, even if they air-recover?
My real problem is when they jump from like the tip of my low forward range, which annoyingly is the range im trying to play in since im in ST guile mode. Seems anything I try is very inconsistent. These include low strong, low fierce, low jab, standing jab, and of course, the frustrating flash kick.
Are you a3 players used to anti airing people with 100% consistency? Cause this really prevents me from enjoying a3.
s.jab is good from far jumps, follow that up with like a j.strong. not guarunteed but small room to flipout. c.strong should work well for everything. his c.strong has incredible priority. works from all ranges for me. it needs to be a deep hit. it beats most attacks. some it has issues with tho… just experiment. if you can anticipate well, early c.fierce works great
With long range jump-ins against Charlie I tend to jump up and throw an attack, which one really depends on the angle and speed they are coming at, I don’t really trust Charlies anti-airs at all.
I trust Charlie’s anti-airs with my life. No one should be jumping in on Charlie it’s just a bad move. I can pretty much predict any air attack and beat it with chuck. And VC3 S.fierce, short flashkick, dash-knee, small flash, s.roundhouse etc does the damage.
prediction, timing, understanding prioity, mix-ups all need developing to learn the counter game.
Brian i got a tip for you, give up specials and supers for a week. Avoid jumping and learn how to predict and to poke. Just try and beat people with normal moves. This is how you learn your characters animations, prioity, and see how it changes depending on your opponents moves, distance, amd timing. This is street fighter to me. When you know your normals intimately and confidently, bring your specials back into it.
If you can use all of your normals correctly and mix them up e nough it makes it hard for opponent to predict you.
You can’t just try one anti-air and make a rule if it works.
There are several conditions that affect whether you will win the exchange cleanly. What move your opponent does, the distance, the part of the animation where the moves colide, the timing, etc
All of those moves you listed work amazing as anti-airs if used and timed right against the right move.
The Key is prediction, you have to think of all the moves your opponent can do, and what move they probably will do. Lets say they jump in, what are they going to do? J.fierce, J.forward. nothing? lets say i predict the late J.fierce i’m know that a c.strong will probably get stuffed, so i try for an early S.roundhouse counter. C.strong works better against C.forward etc. You need to know your moves intimately and have the knowledge of how they work against ALL the other normals in the game.
This takes much experience, but damn i can win with V charlie wthout any VCs or combos. Counters do heavy damage especially when followed by a boom, flash, crouch cancel, or super.
try beating computer just using normals for a few games, you’ll start to see it.
Yeah cool play X-ism out of spite, watch how no alpha counter and roll messes you up. X-ism is easy target for V. your call ^^
Umm, basically what you’re saying is, jump ins are a rock paper scissors game. That’s what I was afraid of.
Whether or not any given anti air works is a turning point in a match, so if you’re right, thats really annoying.
Can anyone confirm this?
If you call knowing which anti-air in which situation rock-paper-scissors, sure. And, as for anti-airs being the turning point of the match, yes it most definitely is. Z3 is even worse than ST when it comes to punishing jumpers, particularly X/Z-ism jumpers. If anything, Z3 anti-airs are too consistent, just requiring more experience in the game as opposed to the generic flash kick or DP anti-air counter in just about every other game. I completely agree with subliminal and sabre in that charlie’s anti-air are insanely good but only if you know how to use them. Yeah, I know, this sounds like the generic crap line “X is good if you know how to use them”… but in Charlie’s case, this is so true. He has anti-airs for just about any situation; you have to recognize them in order to be effective.
I might also add that you have to be a bit unpredicatable yourself. Nothing sucks more that doing an anti-air that’s a guaranteed hit from a jump in at a specific distance, only to find yourself being VC drop-throughed because your opponent was actually baiting you.
As for your original questions:
By definition, a player that air-recovers after being hit by a jab is impossible to hit afterwards. If there were a guaranteed method to hit a flipping character, Z3 would really, really suck. (and personally, my favorite non-vc to hit a jumping character is standing jab cancelled into flash kick, which is something so easy to do in Z3 as compared to other games; wows the crowd, too).
Jabs “mysteriously” hitting as anti-air and the godly priority of most character’s crouching SP (which most chars could use as nti-air) was constantly complained about on Z3 during it’s early days. They’re features, not overlookeed bugs, considering the sheer number of characters that could do it. You’ll just have to accept it as part of Z3. And, frankly, I like it – many, many moves in other SF games were just pointless or nothing more than something to add to a string of attacks, like standing jb. Z3 moves aren’t for show nor are they generic, all-purpose. They have definite uses sometime or another. Rock-Paper-Scissors anyone?
You’ve mentioned that your opponents jump from the tip of crouching FK. It means that you’re capable of reading your opponent’s patterns. How’s about air-throwing them?
I just went and had a go at Charlie and tried crouching SP as anti-air, jeez he’s prolly got the worst crouching SP in terms of anti-air ever, if I were going for an anti-air I’d prolly go cr. JP, cr. FP, st. JP/SP/FP. The only reason to use it as anti-air is that you can cancel a somersault after it easily, or if someone was jumping in from the wrong range, but no-one I play would go for a shallow jump in especially against Charlie, and even then I’d prolly go for a b+FK. It has barely any hit area above it so it trades often with anyone who has decent timing of their jump-in. And the most annoying thing it’s completely useless against Cammy’s hooligan roll. I think FP is the only thing that can stop it.
Worst c.strong? When I think of d.strong anti-airs, Charlie immediately comes to mind (and guy, hate getting hit by that). Maybe not against far out jumps, but…
Only tip I can give is that I try to get them to land on the “meat” of the strong. Make sure it’s totally out and animated when they’re on it. It won’t beat everything, but…
I can’t be the only one to think this… what attack is it that it doesn’t work on?
Ducking mid level attacks are never good against the hooligans, in any game I don’t think… you get caught while you’re ducking. VC bait! (A3 easy answer for everything)
I agree 100%, Charlie’s c.strong has amazing stuff potential, no disrespect Muskau. Charlie is one of my main 4 characters.
To use it well you need to be baiting opponent into trying early jump-in attacks. And this is going on the assumption that someone is silly enough to jump in. Charlie has 2 main ‘early’ counters = D.fierce, or S.roundhouse. If you beat a jump-in attempt with one of these, it’s likely your opponent next time will be attacking early to deal with the early counter, instead of waiting and trying that ‘deep’ attack they wanted. When they start attacking earlier then you do a very late, deep, timed c.strong, XX jab boom.
Advantage works like this: You do unexpected move, they do predicable move = your advantage. You both do moves you each expect = probably trade hits. You get predicted and you guess wrong = oops combo.
This is a kawaks replay of me if anyone is interested, If you need help getting it running PM me and i’ll help. It’s imporant to change the CPU (68000) frequency from 11.8 MHz to 15 MHz under MISC or ALT+F. We recorded replay with wrong setting and if you don’t change it it will lose sync. In replay im using V-cody, V-charlie, and A-gen. Im fighting one of the best players in europe, although he was bit rusty to be fair ^^ . Yeah check out the way charlie is played, no fear.
id like to touch on one thing that has been talked about a bit b4 about charlie, he may have good aa options, but hios flashkick is one of the worst specials to aa with, iv had it block way too many time, just something about how he goes off the ground makes it a bad choice rember that.
another thing that id like th throw out there is the knee bazzoka to flash kick link, iv had this done to me by the cpu a few times, asked apoc and he said that it is indeed possible but the timing is tight, i havnt goten it at all clean, so what im wonderign is it a counterhit bazooka tupe shit only?
Sorry bro, I may have misunderstood the question. You can certainly flashkick just after the knee bazooka but to combo it? That would have to be counterhit and character specific, I’m sure. I only meant that you could do the hop knee and go right into the flashkick.
About Charlie’s AAs. He definately has one of the best set of normals in the game but his RH flashkick is the only flashkick I’d use outside of a VC. It hits twice, better in combos, and it actually has high priority. When someone jumps, unless they attack, they give Charlie the initiative. Most players wait until the last moment to attack in case you flashkick early. I just wait until they hit the button and then react. Hits clean everytime. Think of it like an ol skool DEEP dp. Done deeply, nothing stuffs it. If they don’t attack, Charlie gets one off first upon their landing and has comnplete initiative. If they do attack, RH flashkick is a clean counter.
You may wanna pm Alex Navarro about comboing the flashkick with the knee bazooka though.
thanks for the calrification apoc, it does seem that it would only work on counter hit, thus what the cpu did must be an atribut of the ai system flaws ei: chaining feirce with all chars twice, blocking in the middle of getting hit by a multihit super and mash grabs…ect. its a shame.
