It is easy to think that Japan is all about respect and honor and all that… but make no mistake, that all comes from winning, nothing less. I haven’t ever heard of a last place japan player getting all this hype.
IMO our tournaments are superior for players that want to win, i mean we have 100x less people and still attract the worlds best players? something must be right. Everything except one… we have less players coming that actually expect to win. People figure that it’s easier to copy the best and be the 2nd best, than to win themselves. IMO thats when it becomes easy to copy… Of course it’s one thing to improve on someone’s idea, but people are just straight up copying, right down to the button taps lol. Even america’s game (marvel) has degenerated into copying the top players, and hoping to get lucky and fighting uphill to beat them at their own game, which we know isn’t going to happen, but we do it anyway.
See we don’t need to xcopy japan’s stuff, (remember daigo still lost in 2/3 and 3/5 matches), or to adopt some ‘honor’ philosiphy, we just need people willing to take the titles, and the rest will sort itself out.
Not really part of the original topic, but i wanted to respond to that cause it comes up a lot.
Well how I see it as far as A3 scene goes is this…someone needs to put the A3 ISO out for saturn on the direct connect or people wanting to run the scene need to import copies, or whatever. Even though the saturn one isn’t arcade perfect, neither is the DC port of 3rd Strike, and their scene made due. Sure, saturn shit may be harder to come by, and if thats too much trouble, then you can use the old PSX port. It too wasn’t perfect, but its easier to get a hold of. Once you can establish the scene in the area, go have mass complaints to the arcade managers over wanting A3 machines…and go from there.
You have to start small. Alpha 3 is a damn good game and deserves to have a revival like 3rd Strike. But you can’t have the moon straight off…you have to build the rocket first.
Now, we just need a Hyper Fighting scene revival…though I’m not sure there’s good enough sticks for the Genesis or SNES, and well, the PSX version is a bitch to find :bluu: but hell, its got penetration in the Ultracade (even though its faster on that thing, HF is HF).
You’re right FMJ. I wasnt meaning to imply that we need to put forth some kind of honor code. I was simply trying to say that our players are lazy. We take the easy way out, and it gets us the win most of the time…but when it matters most it fails.
japan is different because in their tourneys are single-elimination. They also can’t switch their character.
So they are forced to learn how to fight these disadvantageous fights and have a better understanding of these matchups.
they also are forced to play with those announcers screaming in their ears (“SONICA SONICA SONICA!”) so i think that requires a bit of focus and ability to tune out other outside noises. Imagine if Tragic started doing this during evo2k4, i bet there’d be a ton of complaints.
as for alpha3 vs ST… all anyone needs to see is that one acho match vid of V-Cody vs V-Karin. First round, cody gets infinite. 2nd round sakura catches cody in an infinite… fucks up with cody at 10% health… cody vces back and guard breaks karen into CC… game over.
very very broken. very fun, but very very broken.
p.s. what do you mean by this fmj
See we don’t need to xcopy japan’s stuff, (remember daigo still lost in 2/3 and 3/5 matches), ***
i don’t see how daigo is that relevant to the topic. I agree that too many people are xcopying. The sad thing is that it works, like in the case of 3s where US had never tried any shit to begin with. But you can’t really fault the players. The footage is there, the competition is sparse. Unlike Marvel where we discovered all the shit first, we’ll be behind in most fighting games strat-wise simply due to scarcity of competition. That’s not something anyone can really change.
i know the match in question it’s edited when Cody starts his infinite both times.
yeah it’s a semi-infinite that Sakura has, think she does like 5 cc j.fierces.
Moop has some valid points but i can’t agree with one match determing the ST vs A3 debate. they’re both good and broken in their different ways.
I can see where its boring if one counter hit = free round but i see it like 9-ball. sometimes your opponent cleans up and all you can do is forget the round and move on. It’s all about avoiding the set-ups.
And yeah i give more props to the players that avoid the uber tier. Always nice to see sodom, rog, cody, charlie, gief etc in tourneys for that varierty.
i like to think i play with honour, i don’t use top-tier characters and i avoid infinites. maybe if $$$ were involved i’d feel different but i’m happy playing my game.
As for the topic a3 deserves tourney status. it can’t be too hard to include ST, A3, CVs2, MVc2, and 3s. I mean i would have loved to see Daigo, ino vs u.s boys in a3. to me the dvd has little appeal without it.
Wasn’t the only reason the japanese players came to EVO this year was because the prize money? I heard japanese tourneys didnt have prize money or, if they did, it wasn’t as much.
money is most of the reason. It goes both ways tho. The japanese coming attracts a shitload of people who might otherwise not come. But yeah, EVO is their personal ATM machine.
EDIT: my last post should be V-Karin.
Anyways i shouldn’t be tooo critical. Most of the japanese players i’ve seen only do a few reps of CC infinites. Just that one cody player lol.
Gen, Sagat, Cody, Vega, Karin, AKuma, Ryu, ChunLi, Rose and Charlie are the only characters I know off who can do infinites. Is there any more characters or can everyone actually do it?
I don’t know about that. At ECC ST drew about 60-70 people, A3 had like 12, but at NEC both had like 10 so who knows maybe ECC was just the exception. I think it’s because the learning curve in A3 is so big - the really good people you can’t really touch if you’re only a casual player whereas in ST even if you just picked up the game you can do good since throws do insane damage and just very basic.
Eventhough your post is directed to apoc. I want to give my opinion about some of the things you said
the same goes for a3
That might be true but it doesn’t say much. Someone posted a thread a long time ago with sale numbers of fighting games and streetfighter was very low. mk5 was one of the highest but most SF players think that game gets boring after a week.
cvs2 sux :evil:but everyone plays it. What I’m trying to say is that eventhough many ppl play a game, it says very little about the quality of the game.
X-ism takes loads of damage has no airblock ,no rolling and no alpha-counters. With all these disadvantages I seriously doubt if x-ism was meant for competitive play. It’s for beginners or players who are to good for their comp.
V-ism has the advantage yes. But A-ism can hang !
IMVHO a-sim a-guy a-gen a-gief a-rolento a-ryu a-chunli a-blanka a-rog are al good for tournament level play
let’s focus on how we are gonna get a3 back in tournaments
since when HAVEN’T the chars i italicized NOT been in regular rotation for A3. Gief is crazy stupid in this game, i’d say #2 or 3 on the brain-dead scale behind dhalshim and or chun-li. i’d rather have a vasectomy than watch an a3 gief match.
I’d like to see more Juni, Mika, Ken, Honda, Blanka, Bison, Sagat players myself, its just unbelievable how damn easy it is to get wins with Sakura and Ryu, they just have some much priority and such good pokes the entire match is usually me waiting for them to finish their poke pattern because its unpunishable unless I’m using a character with comparable priority pokes.
My japanese friend is hosting a tournament. 4 other japanese are confirmed to go(like Project Arashi)… They’re still negotiating with Daigo… since Daigo is on/off in Alpha 3.
Hpmh. During 1999-2000 I spent every other day in Ever Recto (and even sneaked out of Fabelia Hospital in 2001 during breaks) to play SFZ3. No one there can even play V-ism while I was bored out of my skull playing V-Akuma/V-Charlie/V-Gief one player for hours. Has the situation improved within the last 2 years? Haven’t been in Manila since I graduated.
I agree that too many people are xcopying. The sad thing is that it works, like in the case of 3s where US had never tried any shit to begin with. But you can’t really fault the players. The footage is there, the competition is sparse. Unlike Marvel where we discovered all the shit first, we’ll be behind in most fighting games strat-wise simply due to scarcity of competition. That’s not something anyone can really change.