Almost completely useless Marvel facts

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

This thread arose out of a discussion on IRC about random happenings in MvC2. Should be interesting as the MvC2 engine is ridiculously complex and with a good 40 characters that most people forgot were in the game, we all could probably learn something.

Here we go:

–Rogue has an (almost) irreversible kiss setup. On an average weight character, low fierce, jab strong fierce xx d+rh to the other side (which whiffs). As they’re standing up, kiss. Nothing other than tag out can stop this and you only have a frame or two to tag. In practical play, even against people who knew it was coming, this is almost completely guaranteed as the tagout is hard.
(the why behind this) This works because in Marvel there is no such thing as a true reversal. Different things can act almost as a reversal depending on the circumstance. Tag out and jump straight up are the closest thing, but they don’t work in some situations. You can jump straight up away from Magneto’s late meaty slide, but cannot tag away from it. Whereas you can tag away from Rogue’s kiss setup as above, but cannot jump straight up away from it. Fly sometimes will have the same properties as jump straight up and sometimes won’t. Regardless, there is no wakeup DP in the Marvel engine.

–Silver Samurai cannot be thrown while crouching. Doesn’t even have to be a defensive crouch.
(the why behind this) Your guess is as good as mine. Dasrik showed me this one and I’m still not exactly sure why this works.

–Ryu/Dhalsim have a combo that can occasionally break the game. With Ryu, launch (call Dhalsim-Y), sj fierce xx fierce hadoken xx shinkuu hadoken. Aside from doing a buttload (technical term) of damage (especially to Doom), this combo causes problems occasionally. Most of the time it’ll work normally. About 5% of the time, the fireball will cause FS and will send them flying away, but you’ll be charged for the meter anyways. About 2% of the time you’ll get the combo off and while you’re mashing, Ryu will disappear off screen (the screen bounces during this combo) which will occasionally end your super early. This can cost you 15 points of damage or more, which is why I don’t mash this super. SUPER rarely (2 times IIRC), this combo will cause a glitch similar to other Marvel glitches. The fireball will cause FS and send the character flying away. But a giant blue line will go across the screen anyways. Ryu dashes back in as normal. The beam is active for a couple seconds and then is just stuck there graphically but inactive for the rest of the round. I cannot reproduce this on command, but enough people saw it the first time that I did this (actually at Nickel in tournament, years ago) that it is confirmed.
The real fun thing about this combo though. You cannot DHC out of it. This makes this one of the very very few non throw supers that cannot be DHCd out of.
(the why behind this) For the glitch part, especially the graphical glitch part, I have no idea. I can’t reproduce it on command, like I said, so I don’t understand it. It may be somehow related to an A2 glitch. Who knows.
The real interesting part though is the no DHC. You can’t DHC out of it because the shinkuu hadoken part of this is happening during flying screen. And you cannot DHC during FS. Hell, you can’t even really do a super during FS, so this is almost completely useless knowledge, but there you have it.

–Shuma Gorath has a completely inescapable Chaos Dimension setup. After a character dies in the corner, activate CD, call Psylocke and normal jump and hit fierce. No matter what you do (pushblock, take the hit, block, mash) you eat it.
(the why behind this) Chaos Dimension is not a throw, it’s an unblockable hit. This means that you will be snatched cleanly out of blockstun. I used to play Storm/Shuma/Doom as a humiliation team. Build 5 meters, land a hit with Storm, super, dhc to Shuma, drop Doom, CD. Almost totally free.

–The last hit of Juggernaut’s headcrush does not scale.
(the why behind this) Hey, Juggernaut needs all the advantages he can get. For the record, the last hit on Hulk’s Gamma Crush, and the last hit on Final Justice are also very resistant to scaling although Juggernaut seems to be alone in the no scaling under any circumstance rule. Also Sentinel’s rocket punch is remarkably scale resistant although it will scale eventually. There is no other real WHY behind this, the scaling system just doesn’t work right.

–Anakaris is the only character who can continue chaining off of a normal overhead (axe kick).
(the why behind this) OK, at least we can see where Capcom is going with this. This sounds really broken. Of course, other characters can chain after overheads also, they just call them triangle jumps and they tend to be top tier. Capcom apparently missed out on XSF and thought that this gem was part of the reason Anakaris should take an assload of damage.

–You can block after normal jump short with Spiderman, breaking the rules on actions you can do in a normal jump.
(the why behind this) Who knows. Capcom’s “rules” on normal jumping have a whole lot of exceptions. Characters with teleports shred the rules on a regular basis. Dhalsim can spend the entire match at the top of the screen in normal jump as teleport resets his airdash and actions count. So you can teleport, dash up, drill (call an assist if you want), teleport again, etc. A good way to make a Cable/Cyclops player cry.
Also on Warganic’s old “every infinite in the game” site, there was a video with a Shuma infinite that was jab forward jab up+fierce (similar to Iron Man). I called bullshit on this since it broke “the rules” and was never able to reproduce it. However, looking at all the exceptions to the normal jump rule that have been found, who knows, it may have been legit after all.

More as I think of them.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

2

Although I can’t prove it, I’m fairly sure that Blackheart has an extra frame going from stand block to low block than everyone else. There are Magneto resets that I can pre-emptively block with all other characters, but never with BH.

edit: I can’t take credit for the Silver Samurai thing, as that was first discovered by Cornelius (Corn-Nuts).

3

It may have to do with the turning around thing.

For example, Magneto has an unblockable reset on Sentinel. Every character wastes a frame to turn around (probably why you can’t jump straight up out of the Rogue thing in the first post). But Sentinel (and maybe other bigs) have an extra frame they need to turn around, and they can be hit during this frame.
It almost never comes up since you need to create a situation where they stand up the wrong way and have to turn around and then crouch to block. And it also has to knock down because Sentinel has super armor. Magneto can reset off ROM with a slide like this and combo after it.
Nobody really does it because it’s unsafe and if you miss you slid right in front of him and hell even if he gets hit he can always roll and get back on his feet and call Commando and you’re fucked. But it’s out there. ShadyK found that one and used to piss me off to no end with that.

Blackheart may fall victim to that and if that’s true, without super armor, sucks for him.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

4

Shuma Gorath scary… I think I’ll try it sometime.

5

Good thread, unblockable 100% resets with mags on sent is always a good thing. I’ll see if I can think/remember anything.

6

dash behind c.hk on sent is unblockable? I had no idea.

Can somebody explain about the s.hp unblockable on sent?

7

Martianla informed me on IRC you can call assist while spiral is doing fast fall and also,

sonson’s wallkick messes with the screen if someone’s flying or up higher, DHCing into king kobun will hit flying sentinel i think because it messes with FS

8

–Fun with Jill: Her zombies have different properties of unblockableness. The zombie on fire is “unblockable”. The game won’t let you block that because it won’t let you go into block animation, but if there is something on screen for you to block or you are otherwise able to go into block animation, you will be allowed to block it.
The regular zombie acts more like a throw, specifically a lot like Rogue’s kiss. As long as you aren’t currently in blockstun, it will USUALLY grab you. If you slide and they roll and you call the zombie immediately, they can’t jump straight up or fly to get away. They can tag out, but it’s their ass.
If any character in the game was just an airdash away from being usable, it’s Jill. These are good tools, and animals cause a lot of problems, but she has no hope other than random slides.
(the why behind this) The fire zombie acts like a lot of unblockables that happen in Capcom games, this one is just on purpose where as the other ones are (supposedly) accidental. It started in A2 with Rose’s friends super, and is the reason behind the most common unblockables in Marvel. Doom’s sweep, Cable’s magic bullet and Sentinel’s late low fierce all operate on the same principle. The game doesn’t read anything as being there and active for you to block, so you can’t enter blocking state. Marvel needs a block button.

–Tron can airdash multiple times in the air. She’s the only character that can do that without a teleport (with teleporting in between, Dhalsim has unlimited).
(the why behind this) Tron needs all the help she can get. And like we really want an 8 way character to have unlimited runaway.

–Jin Blodia Punch will randomly become unblockable if it hits an assist first
(the why behind this) The same thing happens to Magneto occasionally with Shockwave super. The only plausible reason people have given me for this is that sometimes the game forgets that assist characters don’t count. Sometimes you’ll hit an assist character in the air a few times with Magneto and then the first time you hit the point character with a fierce or rh, it’ll cause FS. As I was told, it’s mostly the same thing. I’m really not sure, but that’s the only explanation I’ve been given.

–Bison can stop the Gambit glitch under some conditions. As long as Gambit hit you and wasted his attack early on, Bison can either teleport up to him or headstomp and will bring Gambit back. Only 3-4 screenlengths over top of the screen and Bison will get lost and Gambit’s gone for good.
(the why behind this) I’m pretty sure that once Gambit gets above that height, he just doesn’t exist anymore. Or at least he isn’t eligible to be hit. Bison will go looking for him and come down much later.
Side note, the first 2 SHGL tournaments (when we were getting 22 and 15 people) were anything goes. They figured that if the glitches were that abusable, someone would whore it out and we could see what REALLY needed to be banned. To my knowledge, nobody ever did the Gambit glitch, but I had to have a counter available, just in case.
–Bonus fact on Bison teleport. It’s almost completely useless since your character will turn around to face the direction Bison is in. As if that wasn’t enough, if you used a punch button, the screen will center on the real Bison.
(the why behind this) Someone at Capcom hates me.

–Blackheart, solo, can repeat Heart of Darkness team supers.
(the why behind this) Team supers do not cause FS. Commando can also get off a couple of Captain Swords this way. Team version of Captain Sword is also far less likely to screw up. It acts like a completely different super. In addition to that it comes out much faster, making Sentinel/Commando team super actually useful in real matches. It’s so good, it doesn’t even belong in this thread, since people do it in tournament.

–Dark Sakura has infinite runaway with her teleport
(the why behind this) Her teleport has 0 frames of recovery and has invincibility immediately on startup. If your timing is flawless, you can get a lead and teleport over and over for 99 seconds. It’s a good thing that’s hard to do.

–You cannot roll away from Doom photons. If you juggle them off the very top of the last photon closest to you, you get a guaranteed unrollable OTG setup. A good setup for this is DHCing from Storm air super to ground photons, then dash low short, low fierce and combo to more photons.
(the why behind this) Probably to prevent people from rolling away from photons. Often when you end an air combo with photons, it’ll end up OTGing because photons combo sloppily. On the scale of completely useless to almost useful, it’s pretty close to useful.
–Bonus fact on photons. If you and Sentinel both fly to the top of the screen and you do air photons and he unflies, the photons come down in a very irregular pattern.
(the why behind this) This is a visual representation of some of the problems that unflying causes. As long as the game doesn’t forget the projectiles that are beneath the height of flying (as happens with Magneto’s tempest chunks and Sentinel’s drone assist sometimes), you can sometimes be dragged down into them. For a useful application of this, against Sentinel flying, with Blackheart do Judgement Day and bait him to fly above you, then DHC to any super and he’ll be dragged into them and take the guaranteed hit. Same principle as the post above.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

9

–Dhalsim’s Yoga Inferno is unrollable for some reason. Why? 'Cause he needs stuff which brings me to this: he gets a tiny bit of meter when he does a yoga inferno in the air. Oh, and he also gets a TINY bit of meter when he grabs you with his strike super.

–Doom and Sonson are the only people who can superjump out of a normal.-

–Sentinel has a bug when he tags in. If you have unfly and time it right you can get any normal to be in the air before he lands. Meaning Sentinel will be as low to the ground as the game allows when he does his normal. (Just like Ruby Heart).

–OTG’s don’t cause stun. Which is why that Psylocke v Servbot infinite works.

–Magneto’s hypergrav can hit and break Sentinel’s super armor if it hits at the right spot.

–The reason you can combo a throw is because the characters recover into A standing frame after say Guile’s air super. Which makes you think – what would happen if thanos’ bubble hit a guy just at the time they were standing? Would they just be frozen in the air?

–FSD resets some rules on capture assists. For instance if you break FS with Spider-Man he can do another web ball in the combo and have it stick to the guy for a while.

– Everyone but Sentinel, Megaman, and Spiral has an FSD.

–You can tag through Sentinel’s CR.HP unblockable if you time it right (@ the first frame when you wake up)

–Some people have a ridiculous ammount of invincibility on some of their throws. For instance if Thanos throws someone onto Dhalsim’s projectile and the person tries to hit thanos it will pass through him. Thanos stays invincible for a loong time.

–japanese version of mvc2 is the cloesest to the arcade. next are few copies of MvC2 but it’s like impossible to find them.

– Cyclops’ OC.HK beats Juggernaut’s splash. lol

–Dhalsim can be hit before he actually hits the ground when he is tripped. I honestly can’t figure out why that happens.

–Tron’s S.LK instantly breaks super armor.

– you can be guard broken if you pushblock in SJ mode! (dunno why) You have to be hit by like a tempest -> dhc into something that is like a hail storm and eventually you wont be able to block.

–Tigerkneeing random moves will have effects on them. For instance tigerkneeing a forcefield (LK) will cause the guy who gets hit to bounce very high in teh air instaed of normal height.

–Holding up cause weird stuff with supers. If you hold up during HSF with Sentinel the guy will bounce extra heigh.

–Jin’s SJ HK doesn’t set FS.

–Anyone + someone who has an instant super can get unblockables since there are certain times when you just can’t block. For instance the first couple of frames when you’re jumping/landing/turning around as posted above.

–I think Juggeraut and Zangief can throw SS when he’s crouching.

–you can’t grab as the first attack for about 3 seconds into the game. Even SPD or supers will miss.

–You can break teh game with a properly timed snapback. As somepeople know you can make things hit twice etc. You can also use a snapback to stop someone from hitting your assist. It CAN be safe but it has to be a special situation.

– Amingo’s OC.HP whiffs on a standing roll.

–OmegaRed is ridiculously small when he’s crouching.

–Dhalsim has unfly but it runs out after one combo lol.

–CPU storm can sjc her cr.mp.

–Dhalsim is one of the few characters who can do an infinite with nothing but fierces.

–Sabretooth can do 2 attacks in one Normal Jump. (Jump up HK, HK etc).

–Bonerine is invincible during his weapon x meaning if he is hitting an assist and someone tries to do a headcrush the headcrush will get sucked in.

those are all the ones off the top of my head. more to come?

10

Magneto’s slide RH is crazy.

Magneto’s slide RH has a frame (or a few frames) where is legitimately unblockable.

I can’t tell you WHAT frames since I don’t play marvel enough to be counting that shit like a crazy tech geek, but I do know that if you time the slide early while they are getting up, the slide can hit them even if they are blocking low.

This is especially good if you have an OTG helper (like a well timed Tron assist for example) or if you do it early enough, you can actually instantly OTG them yourself with c.short, c.rh. This is impossible to roll because you foot is under them before they hit the ground.

Also, sometimes the slide will cross up a jumping opponent who is landing, causing them not to fall down but to “pop up” as if you had done OTG c.short, c.RH. Sometimes if you are just doing a normal RH slide to a jumping opponent who is landing (you’re not even crossing them up) it does the same thing if you hit them during those same unblockable frames. I have no idea why.

Needless to say, Magneto’s slide RH is pretty buggy.

11

Cyke’s glitched oc.hk beats or trades everything but Mag’s c.lk and Megaman’s shit.

12

I’m pretty sure that cyclops bulldog rush is invincible to assists as the opponent wakes up. I.e. if they’re floored and waking up/mashing psylocke, you do the bulldog rush throw (charge b,f + k) as a meaty. cyclops will grab the point character before the assist actually hits him and go through it. Also, i believe this has some of the same properties as rogue’s kiss throw. You can escape via tag out, but also you might be able to escape with a neutral jump upwards.

Cyclops has the hardest throw in the game to tech i believe, d/b + hk leg scissors throw

Also another somewhat interesting property to this throw, is that you can really fuck with people if you do leg scissors throw and they don’t roll. Quick double wavedash up, do again on wakeup into drones or some shit. This throw is beastly.

13

I like doing the f+hp throw in the corner, then db+hk throw into drones.

14

Ruby Hearts Barrel super - when it hits a person in the air and they spin - resets the damage bar. A few other characters can do the same.

Bonerine’s c Lk can go under psylockes assist IIRC

btw - Viscant - whats Anakaris’s guard break with cyke?

15

This actually isn’t because of the game forgetting projectiles, this is because Sentinel’s flying is forced to be relative to where the point character for the other team is. Sentinel is not allowed to fly to the top of the screen if the other player’s character is on the ground. So if BH throws air judgment day or Doom throws air photon array, and you DHC into, say, Cable, Sentinel’s altitude, even if he was way at the top of the screen before the DHC, will get adjusted to be relative to the ground after, which happens to be in the middle of the air super.

I discovered this a few years back and have used it in numerous tournament situations with BH starting and either Cable or Sentinel right behind him. It’s a bit less reliable with Sentinel than it is with Cable in comboing, but BH/Cable in order is a nasty little ambush to pull on Sentinels that like to go up in the air with BH.

16

-Charlie’s Back HK is an overhead and one of the quickest in the game.

-Venom Web can be OTGed in the corner.

-Guile’s C.HK has to be rolled extra early due to the way it prevents rolling in a few more frames to set up his second hit. (Why I used to get it with C.HKxxSonic Hurricane back in the early days.)

17

Right. Like I said, as long as the game DOESN’T forget the projectiles (like tempest chunks or drones), they’ll be dragged down into it. Wasn’t phrased clearly enough, this thread is basically mental diarrhea for me. And re: Anakaris/Cyclops guard break. If you finish in the air, you can either break with the doll, pyramid dive and call Cyclops or break with Cyclops and doll. Second one is way way easier. First one has fun with weight restrictions. And with that said, onto another dump.

–Morrigan has the closest thing to MvC1 divekicks with her shell pierce combo. Down+rh xx qcb rh. Since it doesn’t cause flying screen you can do fun combos with that, including an infinite on Doom (and to my knowledge Doom only). Launch, short, shell pierce combo, land, stand jab, launch, repeat.
(the why behind this) Capcom thought extra attacking from the air was a bad thing, apparently. They did a great job fixing this.

–It’s harder to wavedash with Iceman than any other character.
(the why behind this) Iceman requires a full stop in neutral longer. I don’t know exactly why. There may be another character or two who do this, but Iceman’s sticks out in my mind.

–With Bison’s B assist, you can call 2 assists in one combo if you time it right.
(the why behind this) Bison’s assist takes forever for something to actually happen. He actually jumps off screen before it starts to blow up. Meaning you can call something else and have 2 assists hitting at the same time if they don’t start getting hit before the 2nd one comes out. This is so useless, it’s almost trivial, but can be fun if you have Doom also.

–If you hit someone with 2 long rhs with Dhalsim, FS deteriorates.
(the why behind this) Dhalsim combo videos are fun. Obviously nobody thought that you could do combos like this, so it was thrown in just as a failsafe I guess.

–You can take advantage of Zangief’s forced dash after flying screen by backdashing to make him grab air and then hit him with whatever you want.
(the why behind this) Zangief’s dash sucks and has sucked since the beginning of the vs. series. You could do this in other vs. games also but usually couldn’t get much, but in this game with fast full screen moves…

–There is more than 1 arcade version of MvC2.
(the why behind this) Capcom was made aware of some early glitches in MvC2 and immediately fixed some of them. As you can see, they didn’t keep fixing as they had a hugely uphill battle. But the very first arcade version had a couple glitches that probably aren’t in your arcade version. Sonson’s POW glitch (DHC during POW, other character flies off screen and is gone for good) and Captain America’s Final Justice glitch (DHC right before Final Justice ends and the other character gets stuck upside down and you can’t hit him/throw him/etc.). There are probably other small glitches that were fixed that I’m not aware of.
For the record, the DC version is identical to this 2nd arcade version with the exception of Anakaris’s doll and a couple of minor tweaks to Jill. From the bottom of my heart, thanks Capcom.
There are rumors of other arcade versions being made, some from really credible sources who say that their Marvel has/doesn’t have some glitches. I can’t confirm or deny that either way, but I know for an absolute fact that the 1st version did exist because we played the first SHGL tournament on it and somebody accidentally did the Sonson glitch, which doesn’t exist on all other arcade versions I’ve tried.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

18

BB Hood can crouch under Sentinels Plasma Storm Super.

Storm is a very bugged character. When things that grab her like:

Jill’s Zombie
Magneto’s Hyper Grab
Ruby Heart’s Chain

Assists:

Rogue’s Kiss
Magneto’s Hyper Grab
Ruby Heart’s Chain
Omega Red’s Coil Throw

and you hold back while she is being grabbed you go into block animation.

Also with certain grabs against Storm she will push you away. As proof pick BB Hood(you know you want to anyway) and get Storm in the corner. Perform her Beautiful Memory(Super with Tears) and watch how about after a second the tears start coming out of her eyes that she(BB Hood) gets pushed just a bit and the tears down align with her eyes no more because of this I cant get my unrollable(d.hk) after that super against Storm in the corner.

Another thing with Jill’s LK zombie is that after you call it and you get grabbed by the opponent the Zombie wont grab the opponent.

Roll cant grab a crouching Cable <- :rofl:

oh and this http://www.glitchvideos.com/page.php?id=12

19

-Tron’s S.LK instantly breaks super armor.

so a combo starting with S.LK will have her attacks/special do “normal” damage instead of low?

oh and Rouge’s taunt (she kisses) damages the opponent a little. When i get my mvc2 working, im gonna figure out a way to combo into the taunt… if she can’t do it sololy, ill get a assist to help haha. really interesting thread, keep it up people!

20

To bad no one thats not already registered can’t even see that video. Thanks anyway.