All About Makoto / Read this first

[MrQuotes]

u cant tech a karakusa or any command grab
its the karakusa teching the regular throw

[Fadedsun303]

u cant tech a karakusa or any command grab
its the karakusa teching the regular throw

Ok. So, in a video I saw when Makoto does Karakusa and there was a tech, the other guy was grabbing at the same time, but the karakusa teched HIS grab?

[Kataki]

Ok. So, in a video I saw when Makoto does Karakusa and there was a tech, the other guy was grabbing at the same time, but the karakusa teched HIS grab?

Can’t you tell who teched who from who bounces away? I’m not sure about that, but it just kind of makes sense.

[Roski]

Ok. So, in a video I saw when Makoto does Karakusa and there was a tech, the other guy was grabbing at the same time, but the karakusa teched HIS grab?

Yeah, that’s exactly what’s happening. I’ve heard it can happen with Hugo’s 360, along with some others I think. It seems to happen with Makoto more often than anything else though.

[haunts]

Makes sense.

But if you do want a paragraph or two let me know, cause I have some pretty solid info to offer.

outtie 5000

Yeah man if you have some good stuff write it up. I jsut want to keep things pratical, that’s all.

None of this “do three taunts, activate super, kick ibuki in the head, you win” stuff.

[Dark_Akuma]

Hey Haunts and gang, I believe the tech throw out of the command grap is like 2 frames. I have tried to get it down. But it is really TIGHT!! I will see if I can do some research on it.

Hey I am going to try and have another Anderson tournment too so keep a look out.

Later

[haunts]

hey jordan whats up. throw another tourney, i havent been to one in months!

anyway…

I am trying to write up some character specific stuff right now. I think each character should really be covered completley, everything from openings,to resets to combos to whatever. I dunno if anyone wants to help me out here and post up some stuff. I have been grabbing some tidbits form Mr. Sakurabas gaurnteed damage thread, but I know there are little tricks and strats that are specific for each character, so post em here!

I already started a bit on the Ken section…

[JAK]

Hugo specific combo

karausa --> FP xx ex orochii xx abare dash strong fukiage – dash back jab fukiage about 95% stun on him iirc (90ish w/o the ex orochi no kara nessicary on the sp fukiage on hugo)

*Note standing Hugo says on his feet longer after being hit w/ ex orochi than anyone else allowing abare to combo before he gets knocked down. Tired it on all the other big hitbox characters all seemed to get knocked down before abare got there:sad:

[System_1]

Hugo specific combo

karausa --> FP xx ex orochii xx abare dash strong fukiage – dash back jab fukiage about 95% stun on him iirc (90ish w/o the ex orochi no kara nessicary on the sp fukiage on hugo)

You can do the first fukiage with a LP, MP or HP as well.

[JAK]

You can do the first fukiage with a LP, MP or HP as well.

true, but doing the first w/ jab is pointless becuase it does less stun

[Roski]

Haunts: Here’s some bits of stuff you may want to add to the main faq if it’s helpful.

Vs. Urien

That’s Urien’s basic midscreen unblockable, you’re just going to have to parry it. For Makoto, it’s a mininum of 2-3 parries to get out of it safely. Also, if the Urien assumes you can parry out if it, he can simply throw you(which is better than taking the aegis+launcher damage tho).

Generally, you can punish tackles with cr.mp>hayate. There’s this weird thing about 3S in situations where you will not be able to block, but you can still decide to “block” high or low. Most Uriens by instinct will try to block low after tackles, so you’ll get the damage bonus for crouching as well. If you’re using SA1, you can link that after Hayate to really drive home the point that tackles are unsafe.

Also, this matchup is largely in favor of you. Obviously, be somewhat cautious when he has meter, a two bar Urien has the potential to fuck you up out of a round. You can stuff his tackles and his sweep with c.mk, and you can stuff his headbutts with c.hk. A karakusa in the corner guarantees at least 50% stun, so you can dizzy him in two karakusas. As long as you don’t underestimate him and execute properly, he won’t even get a proper chance to set you up for Aegis.

Good stuff Ramza

Be careful trying to stuff headbutts with cr.RH though, unless you do it on reaction. My experience has been cr.RH just karas Urien’s throw for him.

If you think Urien is going to headbutt, just standing there is another option. None of Urien’s headbutts hit an idle standing Makoto, not even the EX. If you think he’s going to headbutt just stand there and let him jump into your grab for you.

---

I only kind of understand why this match is considered in Makoto’s favor. Urien can be kind of difficult because of his mean AA punishment, so be careful when jumping in. Also his st.Fierce seems to beat alot of Mak’s good ground stuff if it’s done a little later.

But, EX tackle can definately be thrown after block, and also for the regular ones I’d just say patience and parry. If Urien grabs you I would always roll so he can’t set up the usual unblockable. I think it’s better to be at least inside the mirror if he guesses or sees you roll than it is to be between him and it. Also keep in mind that if Urien isn’t looking for it, dash->sh. karakusa can grab him out of crazy stuff like sweeps and sometimes fireballs.

For the mirrors, he’s hitting you on both sides at the same time - that has to be parried if caught in it, unless maybe a hailmary wakeup SA1 to get him off (you’ll still get ticked by the mirror though). Parry a time or two and then throw Urien out of it, moving yourself out of the mirror as well. Either way, you always block as if you were blocking Urien, and always parry towards Urien as well.

Short, Forward, Roundhouse Grabs

I can give you examples of when I use the different grabs, but not really specific moves to use it against…

Short Karakusa
-after you hit with st.sh/low short xx jab hayate (sometimes you’re not in range for it though after the low short xx hayate)
-anything parried close that’s not cancelled
-after a close jab tick throw setup
-dash in -> sh.karakusa
-on your wakeup, or when pressuring another character’s wakeup (whiff something/do nothing)
-after parrying Yun’s shoulder or overhead kick, but not the hop punch
-jumping mk hit or block

Forward Karakusa
-close st.strong tick setup
-close cr.forward tick setup
-close cr.short tick setup
-jab tick depending on range
-this is very risky, but if anticipating a Ken low forward that’s a bit inside its max range, Ken’s low forward will kara himself into your grab if timed right.
-st.short xx hayate -> cancel -> forward grab. Can do sh.karakusa, but forward seems better to me, especially for dexterity reasons. This is a sneaky setup I use fairly often that has a lot of success.
-close uoh
-on Ken, if he rolls a normal throw, instant uoh asap, will whiff, grab (timing is real tight on the uoh, if too slow, will hit REALLY meaty, in which case you can link a st.short)

Roundhouse Karakusa
-from st.short kara
-really probably the only time to use RH grab in a normal situation when another one wouldn’t be better
-when parrying divekicks, if you want to grab, it’s probably best to use this by default, unless you’re really watching some ranges
-if you hit with a deep jumping fierce/rh and really want a grab, you can rh.karakusa with a slight delay right upon landing and grab them right when they recover (of course grab used can vary with how late the fierce/rh hits, vs. what character, and how long of a delay you use)

Some of this is just general as it will vary depending on when the hits occur, what character you’re hitting, what move you’ve parried, and the distance you are when parrying it. Just try to always remember short karakusa is the quickest, but has the least amount of range, and rh karakusa takes the longest, but has the greatest range. If I have a question as to which one to use, I usually go with the forward grab by default.

Hope this helps.

[Dark_Akuma]

Umm good shit man I didn’t think of some of that. What would you guys suggest against Ken after he misses super? I try to grap normally but Ken has a chance to srk my grap. I normal try Roundhouse Karakusa but should I be doing Lk verison? (Faster?)

Comments?

[haunts]

Hey thanks Alex.

More speficis on how to parry out of the Urien midscreen unblockable. I actually parried out of it for the first time this weekend kind of by accident and was wondering about all this.

It seems like I started with a down parry then was parrying twoards (?) Urien as he was doing that f+mk. Is that wrong? I cant remember which way I was parrying to eventually fall out of it…

Ive always started with the down parry, most of the time I will get one more standing parry after that and then im fucked. but this weekend it seemed like it was 4 total parries to get out of it.

One down parry then 3 standing parries?

Umm good shit man I didn’t think of some of that. What would you guys suggest against Ken after he misses super? I try to grap normally but Ken has a chance to srk my grap. I normal try Roundhouse Karakusa but should I be doing Lk verison? (Faster?)

Comments?

I always do LK and it has never been a problem. You have to be quick though. AFAIK, you can FP after the super if you’re quick and that will work too.

[ramza]

I always do LK and it has never been a problem. You have to be quick though. AFAIK, you can FP after the super if you’re quick and that will work too.

Yea same here, I’m never sure exactly why, but I never miss with lk karakusa, even if it’s not reversal, but I next to always get srk’ed out of a FP for some reason.

[haunts]

Yea same here, I’m never sure exactly why, but I never miss with lk karakusa, even if it’s not reversal, but I next to always get srk’ed out of a FP for some reason.

Ive done it but sometimes the Ken player is slow on the SRK too.

[Roski]

Red parry the last hit of the super to guarantee fierce xx abare. It’s not that hard once you get used it, and I don’t think it can be dp’d…

As for parrying out of the unblockable that sounds about right Haunts, maybe you got stuck or something, but I think if you get two parries and hit by the f.mk, you’re knocked out. Also, if Urien is in range, after a parry you can throw him without being harmed.

[haunts]

So does it always start with a down parry? I think I saw Frankie3s down parry Tokido’s unblocabkle or something in some video so I’ve always started with the down parry.

And from there, which direction do you have to parry? Twoards or away from Urien?

[JAK]

So does it always start with a down parry? I think I saw Frankie3s down parry Tokido’s unblocabkle or something in some video so I’ve always started with the down parry.

And from there, which direction do you have to parry? Twoards or away from Urien?

With the standard midscreen first hit can be parried high or low and all parries go towards Urien even though your character will usually be seen parrying one way then the other.

[Roski]

Yah always parry toward Urien and always block as if you were blocking Urien.

[Anonymous_d6297a0df22ddd50d2eee5a1346a9119]

yeah, just uh, don’t get knocked down mid-screen. makoto has no excuse. :tup: