All About Makoto / Read this first before asking questions!
[ Last Revision: June 1st, 2006 - Added reccomended supers to Character Specific section**]**
Compiled by Haunts and MrQuotes! :tup:
It has been decided that we should create a thread that covers a lot of Makoto basics and frequently asked questions. We are doing this to eliminate a lot of the same questions being asked over and over again.
This will be an open discussion of course, so please ask any and all questions that aren’t already answered on this first page. If we run across something that needs to be added to this information here, we will post it in the first couple posts here for EZ reference, and of course give credit where credit is due…
As you can see, this is a work in progress. Please do not post about misspellings or misinformation in this thread. If you see a correction that must be made, please PM me and bring it to my attention.
**
LEGEND * **
p = punch
k = kick
l,m,h = light, medium, heavy
s= standing
c= crounching
j= jumping
s.lp - basic standing jab, nothing very special about it. Can be parried high and low. Can link into s.lk -> s.mk chain.
s.mp - excellent poke, great meaty. leaves you in heavy frame advantage even on block. Parriable High.
s.hp - good damage and combo starter. can be ducked, but will punish low parry attempts.
c.lp - crouching punch that can be blocked high. can be repeated like shoto c.shorts. can be parried high and low
c.mp - a very good high priority poke with excellent range and speed. parriable both high and low.
c.hp - a crouching punch that knocks down on hit. only low hitting crouching punch move. good move to use but is punishable. Even to certain supers.(Ken SAIII, Chun Li, SAII to name a few)
j. lp - Throws a light punch strait out.
j. mp - Throws a medium punch strait out.
j. hp - she does a jumping version of her standing ferice. Used in ending Abare Tosanami combos. Jumping forward or backwards will result in her doing a flip in the air and slinging her hand out infront of her. Good move when chasing after someone.
//KICKS
s.lk - basic short kick that reaches her chest area. parriable high and low. Can be cancled into her special moves, giving those moves much more range.
s.mk - arguably Makoto’s best anti-air normal move. will catch standing characters from afar, and can hit opponents very high in their jump. has excellent range, and is safe on block. parriable high
s.hk - a strange roundhouse that is deceivingly good. unthrowable.
c.lk - Makoto’s only low hitting kick move, and only low hitting combo starter. Fast move but heavy recovery for a crouching light kick.
c.mk - one of Makoto’s best pokes. an excellent kick with very high priority. frame advantage and both hit and block.
c.hk - somewhat slow but a good move very useful as not only an anti-air, but can punish jump attempts. completely safe on block.
j. lk - A jumping knee. Pretty good for catching people in mid air and resetting them.
j. mk - Shoots out a MK. Great move over all. Much like a jumping version of her c.mk.
j. hk - Slings out her man foot, destroying pretty much anything that comes near it. Good move for meeting people mid air.
//COMMAND NORMALS
f.lp - a jab with longer range than her normal standing jab
f.mp - a moving punch that advances Makoto’s movement. leaves you in frame advantage, and sets up kara-karakusa.
f.hp - slightly punishable long reaching fierce that does a good amount of damage and can go over certain low attacks. can be canceled into two more of the same hits for less damage.
f.lk - a forward moving short. somewhat punishable on block not a good stand-alone move.
f.mk - takes a giant step forward and performs a spin kick.
f.hk - Makoto takes a step forward and then performs a low sweep. Holding down on HK will cancel the move. Continue to hold HK, and then do HCB and release, she will end with the Karakusa instead of a sweep. Somewhat useful for setups. First frame or so she moves back so this can avoid throws on wake up if timed correctly.
//SPECIALS
Hayate(QCF+P)- Makoto’s all purpose offensive move. On hit sets up all of her offensive options, leaving the opponent and Makoto face to face. A move you should never just throw out because it leaves you extremely punishable to just about anything worth throwing out. Jab hayate is fast and has some priority over certain moves where you can just throw it out, but it is high risk. Holding down the punch button will leave Makoto in a stance, and will change the properties of the move the longer you hold it down. There are 4 stages to Hayate, but are generally useless. Holding down punch while pressing kick will cancel the move outright. the EX Hayate changes the properties of the move completely. Not only does it knock the opponent down on hit, but it is completely safe on block, putting you in a setup for other options, such as a kara-karakusa.
Oroshi(QCB+P)- An overhead move meant to hit crouching opponents. the LP and MP versions are unsafe and not preferred. The FP version is extremely slow but will knock down on hit and is completely safe on block. The EX Version of the move is the best however. It gets a ridiculous speed increase making it nearly impossible to block on reaction, and knocks down on hit. Even better it leaves you in frame advantage on block as well.
Fukiage(DP+P)- An upwards punch that is supposed to act as some sort of anti-air. While its priority isn’t very good, it carries a ridiculous amount of stun. the EX version of the move has better reversal properties but generally not worth going for, unless you kara it for extra range. mainly used for combos leading to heavy stun damage. Super Jump Cancellable after hit.
Tsurugi(In Air QCb+K)- a jumping axe kick that has a bit of start up. but once it’s out, it’s beating a good amount of jumping moves. Hitting air opponents LK and MK will put the character in a juggle state where you can follow up with further hits with Hayates, while the HK version slams them into the ground, just as well when their grounded. However hitting a grounded opponent with a LK or MK tsurugi will put them ina major hit stun allowing for other links. Safe on block, but extremely punishable if whiffed. The EX version hits an opponent twice, but will also come out at any point of Makoto’s jump. This allows you to perform EX Tsurugi just as you get off the ground, making for a good overhead move that is safe if blocked.
Karakusa(HCB+K)- the key to Makoto’s offense. A command grab that does good stun damage, and lets you combo into any of Makoto’s good options. This move drives fear into your opponents leading to all of your mixup options(that comes later). LK is fastest with the least range, while HK is the slowest with most range. Its range is good to the point where its deceiving, and can catch characters when they least expect it.
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*** COMBOS ***
Karakusa >> HP -> EX Hayate
This is the combo you should focus on landing as much as you can. Does good damage and stun, puts your opponent on the ground which is what you want with Makoto so you can continue to pressure them with more mix ups.
All other strength Hayates will combo and will set up a post-Hayate mix up, but I think you are better off using the EX version if you have the meter. You have more options with her wake up game than you do the post-hayate mix up game, namley kara-oroshis and kara-karakusa…
On a side note, you can choose to not do the EX Hayate, but cancel a normal Hayate, dash in for another Karakusa and start the combo over again.
J. HK -> HP -> EX Hayate
Good combo for when your opponent is stunned.
C. LK -> LP Hayate
Decent enough combo to use on opponents who do not block low on wake up. Will obviously set up post hayate mix up.
C. MP -> Hayate
C.MP is a pretty decent poke so this combo isnt that bad, but I find it more useful to just cancel the hayate and dash in for a throw. Can be hit confirmed if you have good reaction time.
S.LP >> S.LK -> S.MK
S.LP to S.LK is a link, while S.LK to S.MK is a chain. Fun combo but not too terribly useful.
S.LP >> S.LK -> LP Hayate
Again, better to just cancel hayate to confuse opponent and dash in for more throws. Fun combo to use while rushing down.
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*** SUPER ART ***
//SAI (Seichusen Godanzuki)
c.lk xx SA1
Probably the best way to land this super because there is no damage reduction for using a LK. If you work with baiting throws, you can punish wiffed throws from a distance with this.
Karakusa >> HP xx SA1
Both the Karakusa and HP reduce the damage of the super when it connects, so it’s probably best to only use this when trying to finish off your opponent.
Karakusa >> HP -> Hayate >> SAI
Same as above.
c.mk >> SAI (this is a link)
Since this is a link, you can hit confirm this. c.mk is one of her best pokes so the chances of it hitting are usally in your favor. Develop good reaction time and this can become very useful.
S.MP xx SAI
Also can be hit confirmed. Many people will parry this on wake up. If they parry, throw out SAI and will punish them for any throw or move they try after the parry. If they block, you can blame me and this stupid FAQ. Sorry.
//SAII (Abare Tosanami)
Karakusa >> HP xx SAII -> Dash -> MP Fukiage -> Super Jump -> HP
This combo inflicts quite a bit of stun on your opponent.
Karakusa >> HP xx SAII -> Jump -> MK Tsurugi -> MP Hayate -> FP Hayate
This combo inflicts quite a bit of damage on your opponent.
Karakusa >> HP xx SAII -> Dash -> Kara-MP Fukiage -> Dash -> LP Fukiage
This combo does 100% stun on most characters. Kara is done with RH, not LK, for the Kara-MP Fukiage.
OK, great. Now you have all the best combos and you know what all the moves do, but how do you actually win with her?
Understand that in order to be successful with Makoto, you have to be agressive and keep your opponent guessing. She has a wide varitey of mix ups at her disposal, so become familair with all of them and know which are appropriate for which situation.
You must learn how to condition your opponent to do certain things so you have the upperhand when an opprotunity for a mix up arises. This requires some sort of “6th sense”, if you will, that will slowly develop the more you play her. After enough matches you will know what people like to do after being hit on the head with say an EX Oroshi. You will start to understand how people escape the Karakusa and how to punish them accordingly. All of this comes together with practice.
Even the most basic of mix ups are very effective against beginner and intermediate players. Many people are unfamiliar with Makoto and do not know how to escape her little tricks. At an advanced level of the game though, it becomes a lot harder to play her because most advanced players know how to escape your mix ups. In order to play Makoto effectivley at an advanced level of play it takes a lot of practice and solid execution, so don’t get discouraged and keep at it!
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//Favorable Positioning
Positioning is always more important than just being able to do a combo, so you have to know when Makoto is in a favorable position and when she is in an unfavorable position. With that being said, there are a couple things you should primarly focus on when fighting any opponent to put yourself in a favorable position.
Grip them with the Karakusa.
The Karakusa will enable you to inflict the most amount of damage, and genreally speaking will put you at an advantage.
-If you finish off the karakusa combo with Ex Hayate, they will be on the gorund, forced to guess your wake up game.
-If you finish with a non-EX hayate, they will be put in a post-hayate mix up, which can lead to another karakusa among other things.
-Finishing off with a super will obviously inflict the most damage and also put them on the ground.
2.** Knockdown with sweep or with a back or forward throw, forcing them to guess on wake up.
**
Once you are comfortable with all the options she has when her opponent is waking up, this is one of the best situations you can be in.
Karakusa. Characters with no dragon punch genreally can’t do much except jump away. Chracters with dragon punches can be baited by the fear of being karakusaed. Block the dragon and grip them on the way down.
Tick throw into Karakusa. A tick throw is where you throw out a move that puts your opponent in block stun but leaves you at a frame advantage, giving your opponent very little time to react to another karakusa. S. MP works well for this becuase it stays out for quite sometime, beats many moves when used as a meaty, and puts makoto at a good frame advantage. C.LK and C. LP are also good ticks, although C.LP can be parried both high and low.
EX Oroshi. For those who block low this is a good move to condition them to block high, and also slams them right back down, forcing another wake up. One of the best set ups is to mix it up with the karakusa. Throw out C.LK so it appears you are trying to tick karakusa, then just cancel it into EX Oroshi. Will stop those who like to jump away from the Karakusa.
Kara-Karaksusa. Since this has a lot of range, you can use this is many situations. If they do not quickrise, dashback and this will put you in position to kara-karakusa on most characters. Those characters with wide hitboxes such as Hugo, Urien, Dudley and others, the LK will hit them and the karakusa will not catch them. In this case, it is best to time it so the LK comes out and wiffs as they are rising, but they actually wake up into the Karakusa. If they do quickrise, you can just stand there and throw it out as they get up and will catch them. Again, must be done so the LK wiffs on the larger characters. You can also karakarakusa them w/o spacing at all. Bait a parry by wiffing the LK right on top of them so they wake up into the Karakusa. This can take a bit of practice.
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//Unfavorable Positioning
Makoto is at a serious disadvantage in the following situations so try to avoid them if you want to increase your chances of winning.
The Corner
When cornered Makoto has very little fexiblity to get out and very few moves to get her opponent off of her. Most of the options you have here are pretty sketchy at best so just try to stay out of this situation as much as possible. Watch out for back throws into the corner. May not seem like a throw is a big deal until you are being pressured with no way out.
Block low
This really is your best defense. Blocking low and watching for overhead attacks and throws is the safest thing you can do.
C.LK -> EX-Oroshi
If done properly and if they are close enough this should give you a little space at the very least. Hopefully the EX Oroshi hits and they will be knocked down enabling you to escape.
Watch for jumps -> Dash out
Some Players will anticipate you to jump out and may try to meet you mid air. Know that at almost any range, if you see them jumping you will be able to cross under them and get out of the corner. This takes a lot of patience becuase most players will only resort to jumping/crossing you up in the corner if all other throw/c.short/etc options have been exaughsted.
Jump strait up
If you are confident in your parry skills, this may work to bait dragon punches and other moves.
Wake up
Makoto has no realiabe wake up move so, ironicly, she is at a serious disadvantage when waking up. You will find yourself in this positon if you recklessly dash around the screen. She can be caught by sweeps, ex fireballs, c.mk xx super and all kinds of things if you do not utlize her dash properly.
-Block low
Do not parry on wake up, just block unless you see them throwing out something glaringly obvious to parry (IE: Ken’s back+MK). Although simple and basic advice, this is the most realible and safest option you have on wake up.
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//**Hayate Canceling **
As already previously indicated Hayate Canceling is done by doing Hayate, but holding down on the punch button without releasing it, and simultaneously pressing the kick button. If you’re wondering if this move is useful, that merely depends on how much you rely on it. Makoto is more than capable of winning matches in stunning fasion without her advanced moves such as Hayate Cancels and Instant Air Tsurugis. However, by knowing and understanding how helpful every tactic you have available to you, it will make you much more versatile, and will give you more options for different situations.
How are Hayate Cancels useful?
There’s not much purpose for just doing fake Hayates across the screen or right next to someone, simply because it is more detrimental to your success than it is helpful. Although the move involves you recovering, you still have about 3-5 frames where you are completely vulnerable to attack. So there’s no point in using fake Hayates unless u know what you’re doing it for.
**Preservation **
Perhaps the most important thing about Hayate Cancels is its ability to keep you from commiting to high risk situations. Unlike other offense based characters, Makoto doesnt have many moves that will safely advance her forward while maintaining offense. If she messes up, she usually pays, and Hayate is the biggest example at that. Most of Makoto’s offense will start with a landed Hayate, it is a quick special that combos off of her important pokes. However, with a recovery of -12(See Frame Data), she risks being vulnerable to just about any heavy damage combo if the move is blocked. What Hayate Cancels can do for you is to eliminate the constant risk taking. Instead of just commiting to one string, you can be more cautious and merely feel out your situation. This is possible by canceling your pokes into a Fake Hayate. The motion is tricky but it doesn’t take long for it to become second nature. For example, if you’re starting with a c.mp, what you will do is c.mp -> qcf+§~K. After you start the combo and begin the Hayate motion, you will hold on to the button, while at the same time pressing the kick button to cancel the move. This is fast enough that the recovery of the Fake Hayate will usually be too fast for your opponent to anticipate you’re canceling the move, and you will keep yourself from committing to a Hayate.
Setups
The two main moves you will be using in an unguaranteed Hayate combo is c.lk, and c.mp. These are your main mixup starting combos.
c.mp -> qcf+§~K
The awkward thing about c.mp -> Hayate, is that you don’t really need to cancel the Hayate forthright. Although very hard, you are capable of hit confirming the Hayate. As you execute the Hayate, you hold on the Punch button for a split second before you are sure that the c.mp has indeed connected. If you’re fast enough and you release your Hayate it should still connect. Albeit very tough it’s doable, but I find the Post-Hayate Cancel setups more easier. If you’ve canceled in the middle of a blocked Hayate, you are safe if unless you’re opponent has a reacing move, while at the same time capable of reacting to a Hayate Cancel. This will more often than not leave you in range of many of Makoto’s Kara options including Kara-Chop, and her all too awesome Kara-Kara. Instead Makoto’s shout will usually freeze the opponent, with the block stun helping you as well. The other outcome of this setup is if your opponent indeed gets hit with the c.mp and you cancel. This leaves you with more frame advantage to not only do the setups previously mentioned, but you will have leniency, and in this situation dashing for an inclose pressure game can be more optimal. However be warned, on both hit and block, you can be punished for dashing into your opponent of a Canceled Hayate, thats why it is more sensible to attempt it when you land the c.mp. Not only do you have hitstun giving you more cover, but you’re opponent may be too mentally affected by the hit to think about poking at you.
c.lk -> qcf+§~K
This is an in-close setup that you may find yourself using this cancel setup less because chances are more likely you will land this combo. Being that it is Makoto’s only low combo, you can draw out the success of this move more often than not by capitalizing on an oppoents attempt to jump away in anticipation of a Karakusa, or if he is afraid of getting hit by and EX-Chop or IA-Tsurugi. The situation for both hit and block will remain the same due to the fact that no matter what happens, you are going to be at -3(See Frame Data). With this in mind you should never just throw out a c.lk in an offensive mindset. Even if you don’t land the Hayate, canceling it will negate the recovery of the c.lk which allows you to go right into your offensive mixup. The inclose options will leave you with more damaging, but sometimes more risky options. The safest being ex-Oroshi, or and Instant Air EX Tsurugi. You’re opponent may also be frozen into falling into your Karakusa in the midst of all your Hayate canceling madness. Be warned however, that you are open to getting poked in these setups, which will sometimes make you pay. It is up to you if you feel the need to take the risk.
Karakusa >> FP -> qcf+§~K
This is a great set up to tick on an extra bit of damage and stun. When you Karakusa someone, hit them with the FP but cancel the Hayate. After that you can dash in and grip them with another Karakusa. Many times people will expect the EX Hayate and wont be paying attention of you cancel it and dash in and grab them. If they wise up and start to jump away, stop using it. Once out of every 5 times you catch them in the Karakusa you might want to try using this set up. So, dont use it too often, but always keep it in the back of your mind.
Hayate Canceling is more useful for its defensive purposes. Using it in offense isn’t very necessary most of the time. Instead you may find yourself getting to flashy, and forgeting that while you can be doing all of the fancy Fake Hayates, you couldn’t just Karakusa’d your opponent and cut out the middle man. With that in mind, you just have to realize that you should only do what you have to do to win. If you feel it is necessary for the extra work towards your offense, than make sure you have the execution down first before trying this out in any tournament play. You might find your finger slipping, allowing for a block Hayate go get through, and then you lose your match, and you have me to blame. Sorry…
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//Post-Hayate Mix Ups
(I’m sure I’m forgetting something here so feel free to post more or PM me with something I forgot. Thanks)
After a Hayate has been succesfully connected against your opponent this sets up a somewhat 50/50 guessing game. You do have the advantage here for the most part but there are plenty of ways to escape some of these tricks, so learn to read your opponent and be mindful of how they react after being hit with the Hayate. Always keep in mind that your best option is to use the EX Hayate if you have the meter when preforming the Karakusa >> HP -> Hayate combo. These options are best when you either do not have the meter and forced to use non-ex hayate, or have connected the Hayate as a reversal (or even if your strait up random-as-fuck-hail-mary-hayate happens to connect :lol:).
After a connected Hayate you have a couple options at your disposal…
Karakusa. The most obvious of all the options and the one you should try first and probably most often (unless they have a dragon punch, be careful then.) Most beginner players will fall for this all day long becuase they do not know you can simply jump away. You can do Karakusa >> HP -> Hayate into another Karakusa combo until they are dead, unless they wise up and jump away.
Another Hayate. This is risky as hell and I personally do not do it. If you have good reaction time can stop jumps and possibly stuff some moves and obviously sets up another Post-Hayate mix up if it connects when they are still on the ground. Remember that you are -12 on block so this is not the best option.
C.LK -> LP Hayate. If they block high, you can do this combo once. Sets up another post-hayate mix up, but will be too far away at this point for another c.lk -> lp hayate. You can also fake the hayate to prevent being punished too hard for guessing.
EX Oroshi. Fast overhead attack that will crush them if then are crouching and should stop jump away atempts.
C. HK. This will hit them if they jump away if you do it quick enough. Safe on block so not a bad option.
Block. for chracters who have dragon punches, sometimes they will anticipate another Karakusa and prematurley try to dragon punch. Just block the dragon punch and HP -> EX hayate when they come down.
F+MP. This is stupid, I dont know why I am posting this. I never use this but it does set you up for a Kara-Karakusa. If your opponent is really slow and isn’t paying attention this long string of set ups may work. Whatever.
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//Everything Kara
All these moves are too sick when you are able to execute them flawlessly. When the LK is canceled it gives all these moves incredible range, like 1/4th of the screen kind of range if not more. In order to really take your Makoto game to the next level, being able to kara her Karausa and Oroshi is essential. Most Intermediate and Advanced players will not fall for her basic tricks so easily, so being able to work with such range will give you more flexibility with her game.
Kara-Karakusa
This is done by pressing LK then canceling it into her Karakusa.
This makes her Karakusa even more threatining than before. With her being able to step forward so far, this will enable you to inflict a lot of damage on your opponent if you learn the ranges and set ups required to do this.
Rememeber, if the LK hit your opponent, the Karakusa will wiff and you will be left open.
After knockdown, if opponent does not quick rise, dash back. This will set you up for a Kara-Karakusa on most characters. On larger characters such as Hugo, Urien, Dudley, the LK will hit unless you wiff the LK as they are getting up.
After knockdown, opponent quickrises. Works well with most characters. Same issues as above with the larger chracters.
After a blocked EX Hayate. You are pretty safe after a blocked EX hayate so be ready to whip out the Kara-Karakusa just as soon as you recover.
F + MP. I do not use this at all but it does set up a Kara-Karakusa.
MP x2. Again, if your opponent is asleep or something this might work, but too many steps to set up for my tastes.
After F+LK reset in corner. In theory seems like it would work well but most people just jump away. Must be done very quickly after the reset.
Kara-EX Oroshi
Press LK and cancel with EX Oroshi.
Possibly even more useful than the Kara-Karakusa. Good for pressuring your opponent or nailing them from a distance while they are crouching. EX Oroshi will hit even if the LK hits them so you can use this pretty liberally.
Kara-EX Fukiage
Press LK and cancel with EX Fukiage.
This actually gives her somewhat of a decent dragon punch. Works best on larger characters like Hugo and Dudley when they are jumping around. More often than not will cross them up on thier way down. The step-forward then ducking action of the Kara-EX Fukiage also make it feasible to duck under some taller characters pokes and hit them with this.
** Kara-Seichusen Godanzuki **
There was a video on this made sometime back, I forgot who did it, I think it was Mike_Z. Maybe I can upload it when I find a copy of it so you can see what the hell is going on here.
Anyway…
You do QCF, LK then another QCF and Punch.
This will reach your opponent at the beginning of the round (perfect range) and you can also punish blocked shoto sweeps with this.
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//Resets
Makoto has some tricky resets in a couple different siutations that when used sparingly can confuse your opponent to some degree and hopefully land you a Karakusa among other things.
Parry a jump in attack, Reset with standing jab
What you do here is reset them with jab after parrying an incoming jumping attack. You have a couple options at this point. You can dash under them and Karakusa which is probably your best and first option. Some players know how this works and will jump away. If you see they like to jump away after you dash under them, try to pop them with c.hk or any of her other AA options she has. You can also use c.lk to keep them from jumping, and that will consequently set up a tick into karakusa, or you can jsut cancel into EX Oroshi and try for the knockdown.
If you are good at the Kara-Karakusa, after the reset, you can Kara-Karakusa as they come down, so there is no need to dash. If timed correctly, the LK should wiff and they should land in the grab. I have not tested this on everyone so I am not sure if it works on all chacters
These resets can work well against beginner and intermidieate players who use Yun and Yang who like to try to pin you down with dive kicks as well.
**F + LK after EX Hayate in the corner.
**
Basicly whats going on here, is when you connect an EX Hayate and they end up in the corner, you can reset them with F + LK before they hit the ground. From here you can Kara-Karakusa which only works sometimes. Many players will just jump away so be ready to do a c.rh or any other AA options. You can also dash under them for another Karakusa which which consequently set’s you up for the Abare Tosanami.
C.MP after EX Hayate in the corner.
This only works on shotos. You can cancel the c.mp into hayate and cancel the hayate to set up a karakara.
Lots of good bits in there on characters outside of Chun Li, Ken and Yun.
Ken
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - 100% stun him if you can. Even if you cant, many Kens will try to push you into the corner. Having the threat of the SAII makes some Ken’s a little more hesistant to pressure as much.
SAI - Still works well, good damage and alot of set ups. SAII is still preferd in most cases though, more ex meter to mess around with.
** Strats **
This is arguably Makoto’s hardest fight becuase Ken can shut down a lot of her mix up options with his jab dragon. Personally I have found you still want to be agressive in this match and not let his shoryu scare you too much. You just have to expect to eat a super or shoryu from time to time but dont let it rattle you when it happens. If you play smart and stay aggressive you can force mistakes and that is how you are really going to maximize damage in this fight.
Use Makoto’s c.fp sweep sparingly in this match becuase if it is blocked, he can counter with Shippu (saIII).
Punish wiffed c.mk and blocked sweeps with fierce Hayates.
This leads to an obvious post hayate mix up but be mindful that the jab shoryu will shut down a lot of these options so dont be too predictable.
Many many kens will wiff c.mk’s trying to stop your dash with c.mk xx saIII so keep an eye out for that and punish with the Hayate.
Blocked c.mk or EX Hadou, counter with immediate SAI.
Yun
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - Found out first hand that SAI is probably best in this match up. Most damage will come from pokes in this match, and many of her pokes can be cancled or linked into this super. Since Yun is in the air so much, grabbing him with the Karakusa is a little tricky sometimes and makes landing SAII a little more difficult.
Chun-Li
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - Best for this match, imo, becuase a lot of Chun Lis will run and you will find yourself chasing them down more often than not. Personally, I do not find myself in SAII range as much as I would like in this match.
Urien
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - Ive always used this super most, not really as much for the super itself, but I find ex meter is very useful in this match.
SAI - I still find this super useful against Urien. This match s in your favor, many of your pokes will beat his and if you play well you can find plenty of opprotunities to land this super as well. I do miss the ex meter when I use this super though.
Dudley
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - Dudley is strong in the corner, having this super handy will hopefully make the Dudley you are playing a little more cautious about messing around in the corner. EX Meter is useful. Yep.
Ryu
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - Ive always used SAII against Ryu. Mainly for the EX Meter and to super over fireballs if for some reason the Ryu im playing throws one out. Seems to get the job done.
Akuma
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - The normal stun combo will stun Akuma 100% so this is a no brainer.
Q
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - I tend to use SAI in this match since I find myself chasing Q down most of the time anyway. SAII can work too. Probably dosent matter since this match is tottaly in your favor even if you didnt have a super to begin with.
Twelve
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - This is another match where I find myslef chasing Twelve around a lot. I use SAII though for the EX meter. I dont find myself using a super all that often in this match since a lot of time is spent in the air with HK and MK and other random pokes.
Elena
** Reccomended Super(s) **
I dont fight many Elenas at all so I dont have much input here. SAI I suppouse since she is a “watered down Chun Li”.
Yang
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - Much like Yun, you may not find yourself in SAII range as much in this fight. There are more opprotunities to land SAI. You can punish the second or third non-ex Mantish Slash with SAI too.
Oro
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - Ive alwyas used SAI in this match since Oro turtles a lot in most cases. You will be chasing after him.
Alex
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - EX moves are useful and will make the Alex player think a bit more before presuring you so much in the corner with powerbombs and the such. I dont play this match much anymore but SAII seems to work best here.
Hugo
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - I use SAII here for the EX moves. I dont use supers all that much in this match since its hard to get close to him. Punishing wiffs with EX Hayates can prove to be useful though.
Ibuki
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAI - Catching her with the Karakusa can prove to be tricky if the Ibuki player is good, hopping all over the place and crossing you up. She takes a lot of damage too so SAI is probably best here.
Necro
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - EX meter is good of course. Corner necro can be tricky so having the threat of SAII can help a bit.
SAI - I find a lot of opprotunities in this match to land SAI as well.
Remy
** Reccomended Super(s) **
SAII - Like Akuma, Remy is stunned with the standard stun combo. Easy pick here.
Makoto
** Reccomended Super(s) **
Good question. I never play other Makotos.
*** F.A.Q. ***
“What’s a meaty attack? What do meaty attacks have to do with Makoto?”
A meaty attack is when you throw out an attack as your opponent rises from a knockdown, so they wake up into the hit frame of the move.
A meaty attack has a couple purpouses:
To stuff wake up moves such as dragon punches.
To give you frame advantage.
With Makoto, her best meaty attacks are primarly S.MP and C.LK. Since these attacks give you frame advantage, your opponent has less time to react to the Karakusa after being hit (or even if they block) by meaty attack.
For more indepth information on meaties, check out this video:
“Hitting the HP after the Karakusa is difficult for me. What is the timing or what are some visual cues to pull this off?”
Basicly as soon as your opponents feet hit the ground, press HP.
I personally used the level of thier head to find the timing on this. As soon as your opponents head drops from one plane to another, press HP and it should connect.
Some use an audio cue. When she drops them and yells something, you can hit them right after she is done yelling.
Use these as just guides/training wheels to find the timing yourself.
**
“What is the proper spacing to combo SAII (Abare Tosanami) off of Makoto’s FP?”**
In order for the super to connect after the FP, you must be on “your side” of the screen. If your back is too far away from the corner, and your opponent is beyond the timer when you Karakusa them, the super will not connect.
**“I cannot seem to link SAI off of her Hayate! What is the timing on this?”
**
This is a link so you do have to wait just a bit before the super will be able to come out.
The easiest way I found to do this is using the “piano method” of drumming the buttons at the end of her Hayate. So, hit them with the Hayate, do the super motion, then wait just a moment for her to recover then drum the punch buttons with your index (lp), middle (mp) and ring finger (hp). This will count for six inputs ensuring that the super will come out. You will not only get LP, MP, and HP, but you will also get the negative edge effect when they are released. Out of all six inputs, one should register if you do it right and make landing this much easier.
“How do you do Makoto’s Kara-Karakusa?”
You have to be quick to do this consistantly. Press LK and cancel the LK immediatley into any strength Karakusa. You will see her move forward quite a bit and grab the opponent. If the LK -hits- the opponent, this will not work, so know the ranges and set ups to make this work.
“I cannot preform the 100% stun combo! What am I doing wrong?”
Make sure you have your execution on Kara-Fukiage almost flawless. Dash as early as possible, pull off the kara-fukiage as quick as you can, and then dash back the other way to catch them with the last Fukiage. All aspects of this combo have to be pretty tight, so practice a lot until you can feel it out.
**
“Oh, well I can’t do the kara-fukiage. How do you do it consitantly?”**
It’s a bit different than all her other kara moves in the sense that it is not cancled with LK, but with HK.
First off, do not try to tap roundhouse then do Dragon Punch MP. Do the Dragon Punch motion, then tap HK and MP successively. You will input the command, the HK will be cancled by the MP Fukiage, moving you back just a bit making the 100% stun combo feasible.
**“OK, maybe seeing a video will make this combo make more sense. Where is there footage of this 100% stun combo?”
** Makoto 100% Stun Combo Video
*** CREDITS ***
MrQuotes : Move List, Hayate Cancels
StreakSRM/Karathrow.com: Framedata
Rei + KingRaoh/BustKarate Dojo: Meaty Hits Video
CajunStrike: Resets
Neidel got ur pm, this forum should own. :karate: :tup:
Okay once u get her stuff up or since u left space maybe u could do it now, but could u post up what makoto’s weaknesses are. I play against my friends makoto with akuma, dudley and hugo, 12 sometimes, so maybe post just like ur character specific stuff is gonna be, but the opposite of it ya know like what she can’t do against certain characters, and also what a good makoto player and a shit makoto player do.
Her weakness is that she doesn’t have super I and II at the same time, if she picks SA2 she gains nice combos especially on her side of the screen, but she has no poke into super / hit confirm super that ken/chun do.
I think gets a better all around game with 3/4 SA I meter or more but you often have to weigh damage vs meter at times because that threat of super gives her pokes more power than they would normally.
Before everyone played her it was easy to grab ppl, but now some ppl can defend it pretty well, so she often gets into situations where she can’t do anything, but will try to dash or jump or something anyway and die.
holy wow, very nice. i look forward to you filling everything else in, especially the kara stuff. cvs2 is getting too easy, and 3S is the hottest 2D game right now, so i want to learn a couple characters in depth.
When under pressure jump straight up and tsurugi. (mk) tsurugi > land lk> hyate(fake if blocked) or ex oroshi against shotos you have to watch out for shoryu
vs necro parry dive kick to karakusa if its deep or parry > c.mk
vs yun & yang parry dive kick>lp(air reset) dash d.lk>karakusa, karakus,mp>karakusa or mp>hp>hyate. you can have alot of fun with those cross over air resets.
definatly can’t wait to get in depth with the match ups.
For instance, throwing out a meaty s. strong, if they try to jump away, does the FP prevent them from jumping away? or will it just reset them?
I know sometimes I use that set up, s. strong, FP -> EX Hayate, but I can never tell if they were trying to jump or just trying to throw or something. Same thing with the c.lk…
if they actually make the motion to jump then i think it may just reset them. however if you can catch them with a poke while they leave the blocking direction while going into the jump direction then it should logically keep them on the ground since their jump hasnt even began.
its really something that should be tested out to be perfectly sure
hey dont worry about it, this thread is flame free.
Basicly a meaty is throwing a move early so they wake up into it. This is done in most occasions to either give you frame advanatge or to stuff their wake up move (dragon punch etc…). EX Dragons cannot be stuffed by meaty attacks as far as I know, and understand that Akumas dragons have EX properties since he dosent have EX meter, meaning you cannot meaty his dragons.
If anyone has a link to the BKD 3s basics movie about meatys, please post it.
'nother noob question:
:sad:
linking SAII from a s.fp - i can only do it when makoto’s back is close to the edge of the screen. Can SAII really be linked from s.fp if your opponent’s back is against the edge of the screen? Should I just keep practicing or is it impossible to link s.fp to SAII(fk) with lots of room BEHIND makoto? Or if it IS possible, is it even worth trying?
Should I only use this combo/link/whatever when makoto’s back is close to the edge of the screen during a karakusa or what?
