EX-srks can be stuffed, dumbass. Thread’s not so flame-free anymore, haunts!
Anyways, it IS possible to stuff EX-srks. The easiest way to see this happen is with Yun: Blocked target combo, activate GJ, and if Ken does an EX-srk while Yun does the regular st.mp, f+fp after activating GJ, the EX-srk gets stuffed. I think Alex’s overhead punch will stuff Ken’s EX-srk also. And to be more exact on your definition of meaty, it’s so they wake up in the hit frames of a move. :tup:
No. You should have read a few more posts that said that st.fp, SA2 will only connect if the opponent is on YOUR HALF of the screen.
The only way to combo into SA2 is either when the opponent is a little bit from the timer clock all the way to the edge of screen, or if you dizzied them. Just take time to learn when you can actually combo into it, when they are directly under the timer sometimes, when I smack them with FP it pushes them too far back to combo into SA2. EX Hayate instead when you land FP, but too far away for SA2.
although your posts are more offensive than they are informative, I do appreciate your input. :tup:
I assume you can stuff EX dragons with Genei Jin becuase all Yun’s move have priority of that of a super?
anytime I try to meaty and EX dragon its pretty damn sketchy. i usally get busted for my efforts. do you know the reason for the inconsistancy Strakka?
Hey… my posts aren’t THAT offensive… I usually just suggest that people look in other threads as well before posting obvious questions that have been answered a billion times before. I mean, it’s not THAT hard, is it?
Anyways, I don’t think it’s so much that GJ has the priority of a super, as much as it is because it’s a high attack. Ken has 1 invinicibility frame during the EX-srk. I’m purely theorizing this, but if Ken were to be considered in the air from frame 2 onwards, the cr.lk will completely miss because the invincibility frame allows Ken to leave the ground, and because the cr.lk hits low, it’ll miss the opportunity to stuff Ken. Which in turn ends up with Makoto eating the EX-srk. Yun’s st.mp and Alex’s overhead are both high attacks, so even though the invincibility frame allows Ken to leave to the ground, the attack stuffs the EX-srk before the hit frames begin.
Of course, if I’m wrong, someone please correct me.
Edit: I should mention that whenever I try to use a meaty cr.lk with Yun in GJ, I eat EX-srks also. That’s why I’m assuming Ken leaves the ground by frame 2, and it has nothing to do with Yun being in GJ mode.
Re: Ken DP, since it’s invulnerable on frame 1, it cannot be stuffed (unless it hits after frame 1 which would be news to me), all the scenarios your describing seems to be where the DP misses and gets stuffed later.
There is also no such thing as having ‘the priority of a super’, you can have speed, or invulnerability, or you can just be in a position where the dp isn’t hitting you.
I think the problem with c.lk’s is the range. Think about what your trying to do, you can’t hit ken on the frame he’s invulnerable, so you are trying to range and time a short, so it’s not hitting him before frame 1, but is hitting on frame 2, without getting hit yourself. I’m sure there’s some example of one char doing it one time ever on some vid somewhere, but i wouldn’t try it.
Most times what happens IMO is that the short just plain misses (because of range or invincibility especially when it’s meaty), the short retracts, but ken’s DP is still moving forward so he gets the rest of the hits.
Your right it does say that in the book, but it doesn’t make sense since priority doesn’t really describe anything, you can’t hit people with priority, you hit people with hitboxes. Someone would need to clarify whats meant by priority in the book.
The priorty of the move determines how it stacks up against other moves, right? So if you say Yun’s attacks have a higher pirorty when he is in GJ, then you can see why it would beat out moves that do not have the same priority. It makes sense to me, but I am still unclear if this is accurate or not in the actual game.
Partially true. It allows him to leave the ground, and POTENTIALLY beat the attack trying to stuff the EX-srk. I think the invincibility frame is more to ensure that the person will use up bar on an EX, instead of basically flipping a coin to see if their EX gets stuffed without worrying about wasting bar.
The invincibility happens during the STARTUP frames of the move. If you want to break it down to frame data, EX-srk’s duration is 56 frames. It has 2 frame startup, 16 hit frames, and 38 recovery. So for the first frame, Ken cannot be hit. But he can be hit from the second frame onwards. From frames 3-18, Ken’s EX-srk can hit. What FMJaguar is saying is that if the cr.lk is timed to overlap with only the first frame of startup, Makoto will get hit on recovery. I find this hard to believe because Makoto has 5 hit frames in her cr.lk, so there’s a decent window for error there. But I’ve never seen a cr.lk stuff an EX-srk, and from what you’re saying, neither have you.
No, I’m not. Every time I use a meaty cr.lk with Yun in GJ, I eat EX-srks as well. But if I use st.mp, I win. Both have 1 hit frame, but cr.lk has only 1 recovery frame. And I’ve never stuffed an EX-srk with the cr.lk. If I’m timing it improperly to hit on the 1st frame, then I should have the 2nd frame to recover, and be able to block by the 3rd frame, which is when Ken’s EX-srk starts hitting. But if I’m timing it perfectly, and the cr.lk hits on frame 2, then I’d get hit by the 3rd frame during recovery.
Yes, Yun does have higher priority in GJ. But Alex’s overhead punch isn’t in GJ, and it also stuffs EX-srks. No offense intended (for once), but the point of this discussion isn’t to figure out priority, but to find out what stuffs and what doesn’t stuff Ken’s EX-srk, and why that happens, so it can be emulated elsewhere.
That’s why I said that it might be because Yun’s st.mp hits high. If Ken’s hitbox leaves the ground, then the cr.lk will whiff.
And priority explains why Yun’s GJ’ed st.mp will stuff EX-srk’s, but Yun & Makoto’s regular st.mp won’t.
I think you’re looking for different answers. haunts just wants to know if you can stuff ex srks with regular meaties while strakka is trying to understand why GJ st.mp beats it but GJ cr.lk won’t. I won’t talk about GJ because it’s probably an exception to the rule, but the st.mp example shows that unless GJ normals have different hitboxes, GJ does give Yun super priority.
I think Alexes’s meaty st.hp stuffs ex-srk because it allows you to hit Ken’s back on frame 2 without getting hit by his hitbox (fist). To beat “invincible” srks with regular non-GJ normals, you need a move that will avoid Ken’s hitbox and still hit Ken’s vulnerable box. This is why you can “stuff” Ken’s hp srk with delayed max range shoto cr.lks (which is technically just punishing a srk whiff) but you cannot beat it with a close range meaty cr.lk. no matter how perfect your timing is. I think (non-GJ) normals that “beat” ex-srks aren’t really stuffing them as much as they’re “avoiding” them, just like meaty crossups can beat invincible srks with proper timing. But you’re not really stuffing them per se, you’re just avoiding the hitbox. In my experience there are no regular ground meaties that really stuff ex-srks outright aside from GJ. I’m just talking about the good ex-srks like Ken’s btw, not garbage like Yun’s.
EDIT: I can barely re-read my post so I hope that made sense… Basically to make it simple I’m just trying to say that only a few select moves with special hitboxes will “stuff” ex-srks because their hitbox is different and allows them to hit Ken before the srk can hit them. But most meaties in the game will get hit if they try to challenge ex srks even with good timing because their hitbox won’t let them do that.
oh okies, i get it now. i happened to meet up with Lord Sharky yesterday, and he showed me what meaties were (among other things), how to ‘Rush that Bitch Down’, and other stuff, all whilst giving me a terrible ass-whoopin’ at the same time Mak’s s.mp seems very effective, and the fact that you can link it to a c.lk -> SA1 makes it just that much more dangerous…
geneijin yun is scary because the frames on all of his moves are greatly reduced. go to karathrow.com, and compare his frame data before and during geneijin. his crouching short during geneijin is 3/1/1. wtf?!
That’s the first cue for you to lay off the wine, BK. You frenchies & your alcohol… :tup:
j/k. It makes sense. Thx for the clarification.
st.mp isn’t actually that great of a meaty. It’ll lose out to any of Ken’s srk’s all day. I mostly use it for parry bait. Really meaty st.mp, parried or blocked, Karakusa. :tup: And you can time it so that it misses, and Karakusa them anyways.
Everything already said holds, the only odd behavior is yun, and not because of some magical priority BS, but it just seems that the properties of his normals change in GJ (at least according to BK). The details i don’t know but someone in the yun forum can probably say. I don’t know what your looking for by going there other than 1) the same misinformation about ‘stuffing’ that we had here a page ago, and the odd chance that someone good will come on and say what was alreaady said in this thread.
Mak’s s.mp seems very effective, and the fact that you can link it to a c.lk -> SA1 makes it just that much more dangerous…