I always say “don’t let fun get in the way of competition!!!”
IN regards to timing the HP after the karakusa, it’s the split second when she releases the opposing character that you press the HP. For example, if you grab Ryu and you are almost about to let him go you can see he is hunched over as if he just got attacked by any move. That’s when you time the HP.
While reading the first post of this thread, I realized the link to Karathrow no longer works. The Karathrow frame data link for Makoto can be found here. http://ensabahnur.free.fr/Baston/index.php?page=gameMoves&gameNum=20&charNum=10&charName=Makoto&gameName=Street%20Fighter%20III%20Third%20Strike
I also have a question about Makoto as I am trying to pick her up. (Not literally…)
After Karakusa–>HP—>LP. Hayate what are some good followups? THis one makoto player at my arcade can Karakusa trap almost indefinitely on some people. The only given option he gives is to jump out and if you do, he corners you. I believe the combo he uses is Karakusa—>HP—>LP Hayate—>Dash forward—>Karakusa—>HP—> LP Hayate----> Wash Rinse repeat. Is this a real combo, and do I have the notation correct?
Actually I just posted a bit of info on your question in another post, you’ll have to dig through my long post. Its within the thread “Karakusa’ing Opponents”. Plus I think somewhere in this thread there is also basically the same thing, but that could take a while to find.
Thanks for puttin the link to that site.
Here’s a technique I’ve been wondering about f+rh(hold) > karakusa when your opponent’s in wakeup what do you guys think about this one. I’ve had success with this playing against my buddies and shit.
it’s kind of gimmicky, but it works… just dont use it too often 
i usually fall over laughing, mid-round, when i get it to work on “top players” 
It worked the first like, three times I did it, that’s about it. Experienced people just don’t react to the fake f.HK. Although it looks promising on paper, it’s just a bad idea in general.
Doesn’t that trick lose to option parry?
Yeah, the only game where I even think about how my style looks is in MvC2. :lol:
It would lose to quite a few things depending on timming/situation it was used.
Side note second chance double fukiage ender works on dud’s also… Apparently i missed this in earlier testing:wonder:
It seems like people here think the f+rh is to mess them up or fake them out or something, but it’s just there to avoid the throw.
The idea behind the f+rh is if you “know” (you don’t) they are going to throw, when you do it right, she steps back, the throw wiffs, and boom, there you are with the opportunity to Karakusa them. The first, stepping back, part of the animation will get you out of throw range.
Thing is, I think most experienced players on wake up, they are not going to go for a throw in most cases. Either block or jump away.
There is a video floating round of Arlieth doing this to someone in tourney play though. Long time ago…
Best answer! :tup:
Ive been having trouble with a Urien player usingh the headbutt, Charge down, up + Any punch, on me while he’s waking up. It escapes tons of makoto’s normal wakeup options, but not all. So most of the time hes escaping 50% of the time with it. Will a fierce fukiage do the trick in stopping these headbutts, or EX fukiage for that matter? Or is there a safer option, usually I ex chop him out of it, but if I can hit him with a fukiage that would be very nice =).
headbutt will never hit you standing or crouching. cr rh consistently beats/trades headbutts. this match can be won on the strengths of your pokes alone. headbutts shouldn’t lead to anything for the urien if you’re playing smart
You can fukiage them out of it but fierce tends to be too slow, I typically stick to jab if done directly on top of them, as for ex if done point blank it can go under them entirely and whiff.
Although that is very high risk as if he does nothing its free launch to whatever
as for stopping uriens headbutt pretty much any meaty will beat head butt
You can also use an early jumping away fwd etc
Hayate also beats headbutt, and works much better on reaction for me than EX DP. Also, it ends up useful since a lot of times you can do Karakusa, Fierce xx Hayate (he Headbutts to beat your next move) Hayate (headbutt gets hit), Hayate, dash in etc.
Mike Z
There are two other ways to consistently defeat headbutt, especially after a Karakusa-Hayate clinch(heretoafter referred as KHC) or on wakeup:
KHC -> backdash -> Jab Hayate (on reaction to headbutt), Fierce Hayate (juggle)
KHC -> Strong*
SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT STRONG PUNCH: If Makoto’s Strong is parried, she is COMPLETELY SAFE from c.Fierce. I recommend red-parrying the 2nd hit to get a free Karakusa. Urien players who are unaccustomed to this fact are at a severe disadvantage on wakeup, since this is their #1 parry-followup (Urien’s c.Fierce can even punish Makoto’s c.Jab on parry).
Oh wow thanks for all your guys help, I cant believe Urien cant c.fierce me after he parries a strong! Gotta work on that red parry than =).
Just to be clear on something… there’s this annoying guy on Xbox Live who’ll repeat the dash punch (QCF+LP). I’m usually lucky enough to have my inputs registered in time, and block, but whenever I try to do standing MP with Ken, or usually, just throw, there’ll be another dash punch to my face before my move comes out.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040415191252/www.karathrow.com/makoto.html
Here it says “Blocked advantage” is -12. That should give me plenty of time for a close MP with Ken, or at the very least, a throw, right?
I noticed Ken’s EX fireball leaves him at -6 frames of disadvantage. Thought it was completely safe. So you can SA3 reversal, then?..
Ahh, I think I know the answer to your question pretty well after testing it with my brother. After you block a dash punch, hitting makoto with standing MP will use ken’s “long version” of the standing MP…unless you walk up a bit after blocking and than use s.MP. Doing the walk up and s.mp will connect safely if you time it very well, but it is not easy to do at all in the heat of battle…plus lag online might not help. And the option of throwing has very demanding timing…harder than the s.MP. So I wouldnt suggest that. (you also have to walk forward a bit to grab them by the way)
So your best bet would have to be the c.MK because it is fairly easy in the heat of battle and leads into good things. So just hit makoto with your biggest combo everytime if you think you can time it right with that c.MK.
And in case you didnt know, lp shoryu = god against makoto. Well, Im overexaggerating…but it beats just about god dam everything unless makoto has a super. And some people cant think to retaliate that fast even if they do block the lp shoryu.
I dunno about ur last question sry