Alien Covenant / Prometheus / Aliens / AvP / Discussion Thread

Saw it tonight, I feel its a better rewatch than Prometheus but its flaws a still very noticeable. Whoever said it comes off as a mash of Prometheus, Alien, and Aliens was spot on. Fassbender once again did a great job and is the strongest reason I’d watch this again, and Neomorph attack scenes.

[details=Spoiler]
As mentioned multiple times, Oram is a fool. From moment one he is introduced as incompetent and unconfident and we have no reason to care about him.
Much of the crews demises came off like bad slasher films. The worst was the girl that got offed by the Neomorph. You’re walking off to clean yourself up?! I wouldn’t nitpick as much if the movie didnt attempt to have some semblance of basic military tactics yet characters are walking off alone. Even worse when you’ve been attacked previously.
The Xenomorph life cycle was on speed. Things went from facehugger, to chestburster, to massive adult in about 10 minutes of real time
David/Walter switcheroo was so obvious you have to wonder why they even did it. There was nothing suspenseful about it[/details]

Ok, we’re all in agreement that the film was disappointing, but still entertaining.

I’m one of the few people that didn’t like Fassbenders portrayal of David because his motives didn’t make no sense.

Now that some of you have seen it, they’re are a few things I didn’t quite understand

Spoiler

In no particular order.

Let’s start with the Neomorphs. Why were the adolescent Neomorphs in the field bullet resistant, but the fully grown adult Neomorph that decapitated that girl was shot dead instantly.

Why did David’s password work on a new covenant ship, 10 years after he went missing?

Why didn’t Daniels check the CCTV cameras to figure out where the second Xenomorph came before being put back to Cryo sleep?

The Xenomorph chest burst scene was strange, all I remember was seeing was the baby Xenomorph’s shiny ass. What happened to the snake phase?

Why did David have feelings for the Neomorph. He didn’t design it. The Neomorphs occur naturally when the black goo leaks and mixes with the planets ecosystem.

Didn’t understand David’s motives considering that we’re never told why he dropped the black goo on the people of that planet, and we still don’t know who they are.

Yes the crew were dumb, and like I said earlier watching a colleague being killed meant nothing to most of them. I really think that the dumbest mistake in the Alien franchise was the girl who decided break away from the group and wonder through the ruins by herself literally minutes after witnessing 3 of her colleagues being killed by Aliens, lol.

Saw it last night and had a blast. I know I’m one of the few who enjoyed Prometheus (enough to buy it on blue ray), but I’m a fan of the series and thought Covenant was a good addition. My favs in order are Alien, Aliens, Covenant, Prometheus, and 3. Resurrection shouldn’t have ever happened. Covenant was definitely worth the ticket price.

Yeah… so this movie was not very good. It felt more like a vehicle for the albeit talented Michael Fassbender to showcase his acting chops rather than being a good Alien film. The sad part is, I gave Ridley Scott huge passes with Prometheus because I chocked it up to him being rusty and respected what he was trying to accomplish conceptually, along with the nice cinematography. However, there was absolutely no excuse for this film repeating the same glaring flaws as its predecessor. It literally felt like I was watching the same story architecture with a different facade.

First off the objectively bad stuff:

[details=Spoiler]-The moronic “specialists”. So here we have people who are supposed to be prime candidates for a monumental voyage only to have a captain who peers into Alien pods after trusting a android who’s clearly doing suspect shit and avoids answering the most basic queries upon introduction. Other idiotic activities include- staring dumbfoundedly at a newly hatched hellspawn that emerged from your buddy’s corpse, as it slowly composes itself into a murder machine, not checking the source of the xenomorph’s location before entering hypersleep, inspecting unknown lifeforms up close without knowing their makeup and endangering thousands of lives by dropping a ship in proximity to a hellish planet-wide hurricane.

-These almighty Engineers somehow lacked any process to discern whether or not a ship was harboring friend or foe? Considering that it’s heavily implied that there are 2 rival factions within their race, I find it hard to believe that David was clear to land above what looked to be thousands of denizens who just happened to gather in one place like a bunch of plebs. Which leads to…

-So if the infection of David’s virus turns all non-botanical life into some host, why isn’t the planet flooded with competing neomorphs, or at the very least one species that survived the global orgy of violence to becoming an apex predator? Why aren’t there any trace of dead host fauna other than the Engineer carcasses in the city? Are we supposed to believe that in just a few years a global extinction occurred without any pileup of biological remnants?

-Unlike Ripley, who in Alien gradually built up her courage throughout the film before being a badass near the end, Daniels, while intelligent and relatively cool-headed, still jumped into insanely high gear near the film’s climax. Riding on that carrier and blasting that xenomorph without flinching like she’s been at it her whole life. Not to mention handling all those g-forces like a pro all while adeptly controlling a crane module- successfully, mind you. I will admit it did make for good entertainment though.

-Although when under trauma humans have a tendency to do impulsive and irrational things, but considering the remaining crew members just dealt with a harrowing culling of their friends and family, somehow there’s still a mood for some sexy time in the the shower, without the hint of some emotional subtext leading up to it? The scene felt shoehorned in for the sake of gratuitous sex and violence, possibly for trailer hype footage as well.

-Somehow David is capable of overriding the ship even though he’s a now an obsolete 10-year old version who was replaced for being too “human”. If anything, a supposedly “bajillion dollar” A.I. like Mother should’ve had extensively built-in protocols to prevent all Davids (or any other androids for that matter) from having full access to the controls. Heck, why wasn’t the A.I. even capable of telling the difference between the 2 in the first place? It could have notified the crew matter-of-factly for some interesting drama.

-How in the world is a pod-based parasitic organism considered an improvement over a virulent spore-based one? A seemingly invisible-yet-deadly pathogen capable of intelligently homing into the orifices and soft tissues of an organism of nearly any size and shape is infinitely more terrifying and efficient than some pod with a springy space scorpion.[/details]

Personal gripes:

[details=Spoiler]-David being the sole architect of the xenomorphs, while clearly meant to be seen as woefully poetic by Scott, feels like a spit in the face of what made the entire franchise of Alien seem, well, Alien. The entire rebranding of the story kills the sense of wonder and “mystique” ( as @“Dangerous J” said) and makes the film centered more on an narcissistic android with a god-complex than about the Engineers, the xenomorphs, and the full scale of where they all fit in this cinematic universe.

-The whole film just felt like Prometheus now with 75% more ALIEEEEEEEEEENSSSS!!! strobe echo to satisfy his audience. This made the focus less on character building and creating an atmosphere of true terror, and more about Scott glamorizing David’s “philosophically nuanced” and yet, hazy agenda. I could tell the moments Ridley really wanted to capture were the scenes involving Davebender(s), and not the sequences involving the intense drama of dealing with the dangerous unknown that made the first 2 films masterpieces. The action sequences were merely a facilitator to deeply explore his own vision, irrespective of the audience’s expectations. That’s why much of the Covenant crew were still like- “HURR DURR What duz dis unknown lifeformz doo? ADURRR!!! Meesa gon follow the unstable android and peer in the pod- OH NOES!!!” Their idiotic actions were clearly scripted to initiate insert violent action sequence to entertain the masses here and not to actually create real cohesive tension for the sake of the plot narrative. This is much different from when Ripley or a supporting character HAD TO take a potentially lethal risk to GTFO of wherever. (i.e., a logical motivation.)
[/details]

**Honestly, Ridley Scott is doing a George Lucas with his own franchise. **

6.5/10

WS spoiler tags god damn

Although I agree with all you said, white shadow (especially the Scott-Lucas comparison), locoghoul is right, spoiler tags.

Yeah my bad guys, I figured once it’s been over 24 hours since the release it was pretty much fair game for discussion.

Saw it Thursday. Some moments made me laugh out loud with the sheer stupidity of how the characters acted but it was an ok movie. Neomorphs were cool.

that’s what happens when you let an old timer take the wheel.

uh, i meant the movie of course…

Ok damn, never let Ridely Scott near this series again. Prometheus sucked but most seemed to blame Damon lindelof for that. After Alien Covenant, it’s clear he wasn’t the only problem. Ridely Scott is clearly over the hill and doesn’t know what he’s doing anymore.

Someone needs to pry this series away from Ridely Scott before he produces any more shitty Alien flicks. This series hasn’t had a good movie in 31 goddamn years and he is one of those responsible for that. The Alien series has basically turned into the Highlander franchise. A few awesome movies back in the day and then nothing but garbage since then.

Oh, and just when you thought taking their helmets off on an alien planet in Prometheus couldn’t be topped? They topped it because…

Spoiler

Those dumbasses never had helmets to take off to begin with!! They seriously just landed on an alien planet and got out of the ship with plain clothes on. No suits. WTF. And guess what happened? The infection started simply by them breathing in the air with no protection.

The movie was complete garbage.

1/10 would be my rating, and I’m a hardcore fan of the franchise.

This is easily the worst of all the Alien movies, twice as bad as Resurrection.

Yup Joe’s right to be pissed. This was awful. Every single problem Prometheus had? Alien Covenant had…if not WORSE. No joke.

Stupid characters? By gawd…i don’t even know where to begin. Especially that scene with the Captain and the alien egg. I actually said out loud in the theater: “ok nobody is that stupid”.

Unanswered questions and mystery? Yup. Prometheus was one, great big cock tease afterall. Nothing was answered…except one question which brings me too…

Who created the Xenomorphs? Dear god why…

Oh, and can you believe this crappy movie had the balls to try and pull a “Twist” on us by doing something that everyone and their grandma saw coming 100 miles away. Who did they think they were fooling? That put even M.Night Shamylan’s WORSE Twist’s to shame.

I hated this movie the more I think about it.

Makes me wanna watch Alien and Aliens again.

just got back… that was rough…

nah, i don’t agree it was entertaining.

AT LEAST AMY PULLED DEM CALVES OUT

(Well, given all the spoilers I’ve read through in here, I’m glad that I was skeptical about this as Shaft Agent was, except I didn’t bother to go see it; I went to movies today, but it was to go see Guardians of the Galaxy 2 with a friend.)

I really can’t say I’m surprised, unfortunately. For the past month or so, since before my last post in here really, I’ve pretty much expected Covenant to be Prometheus’s version of Requiem: basically a minimally improved sequel to heavily flawed movie that chose to focus violence and gore instead of trying to do anything actually intelligent or substantial with the franchise(s) beyond milking the brand and that was filled with characters you didn’t ever give a fuck about at all, even when it came to the non-fodder ones. That indeed seems to be the case, which is again unfortunate.

I’m curious what Daemos’s opinion will be whenever he posts. I suspect he’ll find a reason to like Covenant, but I have to wonder what the pretext will be, especially since I won’t be seeing this any time soon.

Please define “around that time”, because I’m sure that even with relative dearth of well-done sci-fi movies, there were still a bunch of sci-fi movies better than Prometheus “around that time” even if you discount superhero movies.

Honestly, there’s probably only three people in the thread as a whole that liked it (excluding yourself?): locoghoul (apparently), Daemos, and, IIRC, chadouken!.

That said, I may be throwing @“chadouken!” under the bus here by implying that he likes (another) shitty movie when that’s not actually the case.

i’d consider you with enough IQ to be able to know what “around that time” means

you are welcome to list those sci-fi movies you “are sure” were better around that time though

No, you’re not throwing me under the bus. Like I stated before, I like Prometheus enough to own it. But I’m generally not as critical towards movies as you guys are. I was entertained by it and Covenant, so it’s money well spent as far as I’m concerned.

Potential pre-Alien franchise conflicts:

[details=Spoiler]-So before the events of Alien, Walter had the ability to self-heal. I don’t remember if any of the androids in the future timelines suffered minor injuries, but if they didn’t self-heal in future models, that would be out of place. It’s been a few year since I’ve watched all the movies so I don’t remember if non-catastrophic injuries were ever done on an android. Actually overall, the technology in Prometheus and Covenant seemed significantly more advanced than anything in Alien, which seems very anachronistic considering the almost 20 year gap. A similar 20 year gap in today’s world brought about smartphones, 3D printers and holograms, for example.

-Unless David’s genocidal attack on the Engineer homeworld was a complete extinction event (which I highly doubt seeing as their race are avid explorers), I’m sure in the 18+ years since the massacre varying factions of the Engineers would’ve at least visited and figured out what happened there and unleash their full vengeance on the human race by the time the events of Alien even occurred.

-And last but not least, based on this current backstory, how did the Alien queen come into existence then? What about the murals clearly depicting xenomorphs in Prometheus?

[/details]

Tell that to George Miller, who spent 20+ years making films like Happy Feet and Babe and went back to his beloved Mad Max without skipping a beat. The movie was a master class of filmmaking and didn’t have to overtly fluff up or “modernize” the story to create tension, drama, and pacing.

Geez I actually want to watch Mad Max now just to cure me of these horrible feelings.

It was okay. It had several great moments but I was ultimately too disappointed by the mid section to enjoy it completely. I wanted more and better Prometheus and less Alien. What we got is a Frankenstein’s Monster that doesn’t satisfy anyone.

Truthfully though I walked into the theatre burdened by the biases of a die hard fan. It’s been days and I am still thinking about the film, I am not comfortable giving my opinion just yet which is why I stayed quiet.

I highly recommend you and others watch it. Just don’t let your expectation get the best of you.

I am waiting a little longer and will watch the film again on its own terms with hopefully less of my prejudices.