Alex Tech Thread: "POWA BOMB!"

[Frost]

Input history from when he pressed cr.lk -

b, db, f, f lk+mk, b

So he input the lk+mk on the same input as the dash. Right, now we just need to find out why it worked in that scenario, some proximity guard forcing it or can it be done away from the opponent etcetc.

[GenUser]

Here’s a video of the requested dash slash with inputs on like you guys wanted. Hope this helps someone work it out, I’m going to have a mess around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SZZ1dSKMw0&feature=youtu.be

From what I can see he goes db, b, db, f, f+lk+mk.

EDIT: Ok quick mess around, the interesting thing about those inputs is that if you dash and do the command its 3 forwards with the last having the two buttons. To copy it exactly hold forward then press two kicks buttons. I feel this is some kind of very strict timing and may have to do with proximity guard maybe?

0_0

[Zachara]

Ok, I’ve got a theory -
We all know the input buffer in this game is huge. So what I’m assuming has happened is that the game has registered the dash but also registered that a special move was input on the same frame. I have a feeling that holding back straight after is what gives this in the same way that Chun Li’s IALL require a D,DF,F,UF,D motion to get the TK, very similar to how MKX’s option selects work/did work (I don’t know, haven’t played that for months) - You overwrite the previous inputs with a new one but the inputs still float around in, for lack of a better term, buffer window. So the dash happens and on the instant it recovers, it throws out the move.

Take with a giant pinch of salt.

[meianoite666]

I hope its not a lag issue
On sf4 I saw crazy things happens when you mix lag and charge characters

[Frost]

Ok, I’ve got a theory -
We all know the input buffer in this game is huge. So what I’m assuming has happened is that the game has registered the dash but also registered that a special move was input on the same frame. I have a feeling that holding back straight after is what gives this in the same way that Chun Li’s IALL require a D,DF,F,UF,D motion to get the TK, very similar to how MKX’s option selects work/did work (I don’t know, haven’t played that for months) - You overwrite the previous inputs with a new one but the inputs still float around in, for lack of a better term, buffer window. So the dash happens and on the instant it recovers, it throws out the move.

Take with a giant pinch of salt.

Good theory, I’ll run to the lab and check if I can make this happen

EDIT**
Been at it an hour, I CANNOT get this to to come out. It must have been either a VERY strict timing or some form of prox block OS as stated above.

I haven’t done it myself but someone should try to recreate the scenario in the video, I’ve copied the inputs of the guy that pulled it off to the T and it won’t happen.

[captaingarth]

THIS THREAD IS SO HELPFUL.

[Zachara]

EDIT**
Been at it an hour, I CANNOT get this to to come out. It must have been either a VERY strict timing or some form of prox block OS as stated above.

So being the nerd that I am I’ve watched that video slowed to 0.25 several times and I’m thinking you’re right. If I recall correctly Bison can cancel his dash into a normal, right? Well the dash goes through and it seems like the moment Bison touches the st.MP, Alex starts glowing yellow. Watching the Bison’s inputs while watching for Alex’s colour is more evidence that supports your conclusion.

[ProtoIno]

Trying to learn how to cancel standing normals into his stomp and head butt, I find it considerably harder to do these things in this game.

Way harder to do it in this game than 3rd Strike, for some reason. You have to be so fast.

Yeah in third strIke you could go neutral input it then press up and the button, used to do it this way with urien

Thats how I do it in SFIV. Same way I did it in 3s. Feels even easier with the buffer window.

[Fate]

Dash slash is neat, but is also present in SF4, hence why rog could dash ultra punish things.

It is unfortunately still not partitioning.

A very very bad and quick description of what charge partitioning actually is; you store a fraction of your charge, do some other shit then store the other fraction, then boom charge move.

For instance with Urien, c.HP xx tackle xx aegis xx tackle (during this tackle hold down to store some charge), dash (hold down), press up + p and you get a headbutt.

You could not build a whole down charge during a dash, and if you built a whole charge during the tackle animation and then dashed you would not get a headbutt.

imo it is VERY unlikely this mechanic will return, and for people who didnt play a lot of 3s and do not grasp the concept it is probably important not to label anything that looks unusual to do with charge as partitioning.

NICA KO probably has a really good video explaining it in full detail if you want to learn more but I cbf finding it.

[Metroxylon]

Ok, I’ve got a theory -
We all know the input buffer in this game is huge. So what I’m assuming has happened is that the game has registered the dash but also registered that a special move was input on the same frame. I have a feeling that holding back straight after is what gives this in the same way that Chun Li’s IALL require a D,DF,F,UF,D motion to get the TK, very similar to how MKX’s option selects work/did work (I don’t know, haven’t played that for months) - You overwrite the previous inputs with a new one but the inputs still float around in, for lack of a better term, buffer window. So the dash happens and on the instant it recovers, it throws out the move.

Take with a giant pinch of salt.

Good theory, I’ll run to the lab and check if I can make this happen

EDIT**
Been at it an hour, I CANNOT get this to to come out. It must have been either a VERY strict timing or some form of prox block OS as stated above.

I haven’t done it myself but someone should try to recreate the scenario in the video, I’ve copied the inputs of the guy that pulled it off to the T and it won’t happen.

yesterday after I posted the video, I tried to work it out in the lab. I even set dummy Bison to dash s.MP dash on repeat with no success. I want to believe there is some method to it, but it’s just very hard to replicate. Might be something like needing to absorb a hit on the first frame of elbow also.

[v-ryu]

Ive discussed on twitter about the alex thing with toolassisted, gilley and other data/hitbox masters xD

Its due to buffer during jump/wakeup/block/getting hit.

Timing is difficult, but you have to do fwd fwd+LK+MK at the end of blockstun to make it happen.

You can check twitter to have more detailed answers.

Works with every charged moves

[v-ryu]

Oops, forgot the video

Https://youtu.be/4yzHMURIn5A

[Metroxylon]

Ive discussed on twitter about the alex thing with toolassisted, gilley and other data/hitbox masters xD

Its due to buffer during jump/wakeup/block/getting hit.

Timing is difficult, but you have to do fwd fwd+LK+MK at the end of blockstun to make it happen.

You can check twitter to have more detailed answers.

Works with every charged moves

hmm maybe because of the increased input buffer window, I did the dash command before I was out of block stun, retaining the charge input?

[minii]

V-ryu senpai! With that info it should be possible to recreate, with the strict nature though I dunno how useful it necessarily is.

[Zachara]

Just seen this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxuiIUslfvo

Is not bad. We more or less know this stuff already but it’s never a bad thing to have too much information floating around.

[v-ryu]

Ive discussed on twitter about the alex thing with toolassisted, gilley and other data/hitbox masters xD

Its due to buffer during jump/wakeup/block/getting hit.

Timing is difficult, but you have to do fwd fwd+LK+MK at the end of blockstun to make it happen.

You can check twitter to have more detailed answers.

Works with every charged moves

hmm maybe because of the increased input buffer window, I did the dash command before I was out of block stun, retaining the charge input?

Dash has 9 buffer frames (more than special, etc). Thats why its possible

[meianoite666]

I wanna test this thing tonight
What scenario you guys think it could be useful
Maybe blocking fireball and elbow to close distance
Could work well against nash when he chase after the fireball

[TZWhiteShadow]

I’m sure it’s been talked about, but there has been so much information flying about and I have been more focused on finding a solid go to gameplan, but what set-ups are people using for Stomp? Are the normal versions even viable? I feel like people have been blocking those on reaction.

I feel like getting the hard knockdown from Stomp is something I want to work into my game, but I’m struggling with good, solid ways to set it up. Of course once they start to fear the stomp, headbutt becomes more dangerous, at least this is my thought process.

[Frost]

I’m sure it’s been talked about, but there has been so much information flying about and I have been more focused on finding a solid go to gameplan, but what set-ups are people using for Stomp? Are the normal versions even viable? I feel like people have been blocking those on reaction.

I feel like getting the hard knockdown from Stomp is something I want to work into my game, but I’m struggling with good, solid ways to set it up. Of course once they start to fear the stomp, headbutt becomes more dangerous, at least this is my thought process.

Only EX is viable from blockstrings IMO due to its frame advantage. You can use regular Stomp if you get a hard read on a fireball.

[Slack_is_Love]

I’m sure it’s been talked about, but there has been so much information flying about and I have been more focused on finding a solid go to gameplan, but what set-ups are people using for Stomp? Are the normal versions even viable? I feel like people have been blocking those on reaction.

I feel like getting the hard knockdown from Stomp is something I want to work into my game, but I’m struggling with good, solid ways to set it up. Of course once they start to fear the stomp, headbutt becomes more dangerous, at least this is my thought process.

Considering regular Stomp is unsafe, I try to train the opponent at first by doing cr.LP > cr.LK > cr.MK, to get them used to crouch blocking moves. If they’re jumping too much after the cr.MK, I use cr.MP instead since it stuffs their jump after the cr.LK. After they’re a bit trained, I’m usually going cr.LP > cr.LK/cr.LP xx lk.Stomp, and hopefully they’ve been lulled into blocking low enough that they get nailed. Probably the most solid strategy overall is to use EX Stomp over regular. Get used to aiming it though.