I am going to be honest. For the average Akuma player this match up will be a nightmare because what you have to do to survive in the match up requires a lot of advanced tools and techniques to make it work for you.
A lot of Yun’s tools you can’t punish on block and that is where a lot of players have trouble. Good Yun’s aren’t going to use unsafe moves. It is the same reason a lot of players had trouble with Blanka is that Akuma couldn’t punish much on block. Yet the way you had to play Blanka was to read what he was going to do and intercept his moves. Even if you don’t always intercept him, if he knows you are willing to punish his attempts to hop and ball it makes him more reluctant to use those moves which gives you an edge over Blanka.
Likewise with Yun he has some great safe pressure tools and you have to read and do your best to discourage Yun’s moves. Akuma does have answers to almost everything Yun can do to get in. Dive kicks can be AAed with good normal use, EX Lunge can be defeated using c.MK to go under and punish on the back side, shoulders are simply not safe without meter, etc.
As I have stated before, it isn’t easy to fight Yun. Yet I don’t think it is impossible either. This is a match up you need to know really well or else it will eat you alive.
each time u quote me. and i read your msg…its like i’ve already known those stuff man…don’t need to tell me basic anti-yun stuff dude.
stand jab beats his divekick. have you played any yun that his your jab during recovery? they stand at this spot where they can decide to fake dive(lands just outside of the stand jab) and choose to footsie from that range with s.mp or chose to land and walk up s.mp its so irritating. obviously you can try to react. but I’m playing a players that’s equal or better than me at the same time dealing with bad match up. by the 50th or 100th game against yun on a day my mind gets blown up trying to react to all those stuff.
all his non-ex dash punch if spaced properly is still safe on block.
i’ll put it simply majority of the yun players rush like and idiot thinking they can do their bionic arm for free and divekick free. i destroy them with not much problem.
its the really good yun’s that giving me problem. i mean honestly, at the current stage any decent yun will eat up any decent akuma because the current matchup is 6-4ish or worse.
I think it’s a real shame Yun is so clearly S-tier. It makes people just learn counter-picks (e.g. Sagat, which is what Mago is doing). It’s like the gap between Yun and even another high tier character like Akuma is so large it’s almost pointless to try to learn the match-up in depth because even if you do a good Yun will beat a really good Akuma 7-3 most of the time.
I bet you any money Tokido has some tricks up his sleeve ready for Evo as far as counter-picks go.
Sorry but if you are expressing that basic Yun strats are giving you problems then I would assume you aren’t doing the basic anti-Yun strats to deal with it. shrug
I stop jabbing before he hits the ground.
Even if you are playing dudes who are better than you if you make many correct anti-Yun decisions you will make it difficult for them. Sure Yun can blow it up pretty easy sometimes, but this matchup is about being vigilant in doing your anti-Yun stuff every time.
Wait, what are they doing to cause you to block a max range or meaty dash punch?
Don’t lose hope on this matchup, Akuma can fight it well.
I’ll just throw my 2 cents here: if that’s how we get wins against opponents which aren’t as strong as us (I believe Infiltration is a better player than Chang), than we’re pretty much at a somewhat noticeable disadvantage.
I mean, he didn’t win convincingly, he had to resort to old gimmicks like st.HK into Ultra (even the other Ultra he landed, I don’t know how he could’ve seen that palm, if Chang had faked it Infiltration would have been destroyed there), and he got some huge punishes here and there - not to mention some free b&bs towards the end of the rounds.
My take on divekicks and safe specials:
Divekicks are not impossible to react to (they are not super fast, and the hitbox is just bleh), but the fact that he (them, damn Yang who people keep saying is a more honest version than Yun, yeah, right) can change the trajectory is painful, because they can just “fake” it.
So, to me, saying “you can antiair them easily” it’s just misleading - Demon’ing them brings that statement to a whole new level, come on guys, it can be done, but it’s way far from doable, especially against strong opponents (Shin’s opponent was trash if you ask me) who’ll mix the hell up.
Also, there are istances where you basically cannot antiair it because they’re too close (ie: LK divekick) and they are just stomping over you so your normals are useless. And they land where they feel like it, boy that thing is unpredictable.
Speaking of normals, I honestly can beat divekicks consistently only with st.HP, because of its 3 active frames (at times also with cr.MP - heck, even cr.HP works better for me). st.MP hitbox is great, but trying to antiair with 2 active frames is a pain in the arse at times. Majority of time I just try to go for MP SRK (works great, love that thing - free “told you so” speech for everyone :>) when I’m in a situation where there’s the right spacing to stuff with st.MP - but reaction is definitely an issue here :<<
Finally, those things are supposed to be unsafe when hit you above the head, but I hardly ever succeed to reversal SRK them, they just have time to block. So if you block the divekick, it leads to a situation where they are (assuming the divekick hit you pretty high) at frame disadvantage, but you’re still under pressure: will he jump and insta divekick? Is he expecting me to stay put and just command throw me? Can I try some jabs or will he risk an uppercut? Stuff like that.
About rush punches and shoulders: they’re definitely punishable, but they have to be used in the most moronic way possible for it to be an easy punish.
I mean, the LP (-3) one is kind of out of question, you can just reversal SRK and it requires like, what, 1 pixel of pushback to go from -3 to -2, so your best bet is just to use normals there and keep the meter (I like saving it for Super in this matchup, but I’ve got admit I just burn it SRK’ing). All the other versions are -6 to -7, but again, this completely changes when they hit you with the tip. It’s like Abel’s wheelkick, at times you just won’t punish it.
Same goes for dash punches: sure, we can SRK on reaction when they’re fullscreen (I landed cr.MK into Ultra a couple times, feels damn good - boy I’m miserable lol), and even the EX isn’t that fast (Makoto’s one is painful, to say the least). The point is, you are not going to react to them all the times, and when they land a LP one from mid screen or even a MP one from just a little further (it happened a few times to me at least :<) and hit you with the tip, you just won’t reversal. Bloody thing is supposed to be -9 or -7, yeah sure.
Meh, I’m sorry about the big whiny post. It’s funny, 'cause I feel Yang is even harder then Yun - only, he doesn’t blows us up with a single Geneijin. Would anyone care to read the wall of text and share his feelings? Would be great!
On a side note, in the video posted by Shin: CH (don’t think it’s necessary the counterhit though) cr.LP, cr.MP xx EX Fireball followed by HK DF divekick safejumped Yun’s 8 frames HK Upkick Reversal on quick rise. Maybe a early DF palm can safejump his other options too?
I’ll try some on this options tonight in the lab, hopefully can get some stuff worth sharing.
@ lollo: man, I totally lost your message a coupla pages ago. Busy with the exams these day, hopefully we can play some matches in a week!
Why do you feel Infiltration is better than Hsien? I personally feel they are of top level skill and who is better cannot be said.
You don’t seriously believe a 5/5 or 6/4 matchup should be won convincingly do you?
It’s not like Yun doesn’t use gimmicks either. In fact Infiltration punished a Yun gimmick - spamming target combo - with demon.
Making good reads is a part of fighting games, you are gonna need them to win.
I don’t know how long many of you have been playing fighting games or SF in particular but a common element to these games is the reliance on strong tactics. Even top level players will have their “go to” pressure or moves. Dive kick is one of them. As a Yun opponent we need to recognize when this “go to” scenario happens most often and that is where you will be able to demon Yun. (like Infiltration did)
I’ve been playing a lot of this match-up recently and noticed my biggest problem is that Yun is very aggressive and I also play an aggressive Akuma but Yun just gets in better. The only thing I have changed when playing Yun is to use Air FireBalls very effectively, You can keep Yun out of the air from doing dive kicks if you use your air fireballs properly. Yun also has his EX Lunge and Elbow to avoid them which is why you have to be really smart and unpredictable with them. This is defiantly a match you need to work really hard for your win but it is possible
So, spent like an hour in the lab the other day (wish I had more than that these days) and tried some ghetto setups to bait stuff (maybe it’s just the players I face, but Yun players seem to do a lot of Dragon Kicks, it’s like they don’t care - I’m talking about decent to good players, not random live scrubs), here what I found/tested:
First of all, exploding heart technique (forward throw, 2x dash, DF MK divekick) beats every reversal upkick. Can’t remember who posted this in the thread, but I read it gets beaten by EX Upkick. Well it’s not the case, i tested it, but it does happen if your timing is slightly off.
Note that when this happens we’re pretty much fucked, since he can do EX DK into EX Shoulder for a healthy 265/475: one more mixup and we’re done for.
Here’s the vid I recorded of it stuffing every Dragon Kick
[media=youtube]821BOhtXLNM[/media]
Now, as for the ghetto setups (some indeed are poor lol):
Sweep, instant jump forward, D+MK Divekick = Safejumps every reversal Upkick (stuff MK one), should be pretty much known by everyone right know.
Throw, st.HP, HK DF Palm = Safejumps every reversal Upkick. For this one the st.HP should be delayed a bit, or the bait will be way too obvious (you land like half character away from him, weaker Upkicks fail even to touch you).
Throw, st.HK, MK DF Palm = Loses to everything, manages to safejumpHK Upkick, only if if you execute everything on first frames possible. Sucks arse, ignore this.
Throw, st.HK, HK DF Palm = Crosses up opponent and safejumps every (Ultra included) reversal, loses to delayed (autocorrect) EX Upkick (beats all the others). I’d recommend backdashing (and buffering Demon) on wakeup to avoid sthe damn hortcut command grab, it has happened to me often - damn that’s evil.
I don’t think this stuff will be that useful, but if one keeps track of every possibility and mixup it up, it should give a hard time to the opponent.
One doesn’t have to agree, of course, that was just my feeling having seen both of them playing a few times. :>
Um, yeah, I do. I mean, it can very much be won convincingly, since we’re speaking of glass cannons and Akuma needs basically one FADC combo (this is one of the few reasons I think this matchup is decently winnable) to hurt him badly, 900/900 and all.
Till we develop some huge tactics against the bastard or discover some godly unblockable, I don’t see how this matchup is even - I dare say it’s even quite a bit in his favor. Yay for theory fighting.
That’s not even a gimmick tbh, but my point there is that it seemed a huge risk, more than a read (That thing could’ve been a fake palm, again), and I’m no fan of big risks with a low health character.(probably you’re a much greater fan of this sort of play than me, judging by your latest match).
Sure, at times you’ve got to take some, but if we have to resort to that, we’re being a little desperate.
That’s not a matter of how long you play the game if you ask me, it doesn’t concern characters only, but players too: I mean, why do people, like, mash the hell out of everything? Because it works lots of time, of course.
Just 'cause you know that he can divekick, or simply because you know when it’s high likely he’s gonna do it, you not reacting to that 100 % of the times Shin. Let alone demoning that stuff. And we’re talking about the freaking Tokido (see Shadowloo) here, not me playing against third world competitors lol.
Infiltration didn’t demon any divekick, just like the one you demoned against that Cammy wasn’t even a decent one (too high, should’ve delayed it as it was still possible in Super, and you could’ve eaten a very fat combo).
Guess it’s off topic, but: damn the board is not working okay for me: I can’t edit my previous post, somehow the lower half is cut (not showing like 3/4 of what I wrote). Some posts also don’t appear at times, like in the video thread.
I thought it was an issue with No Script, but even allowing the whole page won’t fix it. Anyone experiencing this too?
I dunno, they have played in two US majors, both made top 8 and both have finished ahead of the other in one tourney.
I am not asking if you think it’s possible to win convincingly I am asking if you expect that an even or close matchup between equally skilled players should be won convincingly.
If the answer is still yes I would submit that you have false expectations.
Solid play is more essential than trying to discover some broken game mechanic.
Spamming unsafe stuff in some guys face?
Yeah that’s a gimmick.
In many ways it isn’t a huge risk since not many characters can reliably punish demon for the damage it does. Go for 500+ at the risk of a 300+ punish while up a match? Technically that’s a calculated risk.
You don’t have to go for that. Infiltration won the first match with clean solid play.
This is true, but I find the more experience one has the more likely they will understand what I am saying.
Nobody ever said you would react to 100% of the time, just react when you have the tell on him.
Tokido rarely demons obvious regular jumps, so pointing out he doesn’t demon harder to demon jumps is neither here nor there.
No he demoned the other obvious attack he had his tell on - the spammed target combo.
He recognized a scenario and took advantage.
That was the dive kick he had been representing the entire match, which is why I was able to read and punish it.
Players are creatures of habit and will go to things they feel is strong and safe. If you recognize these areas you can use that to your advantage.
I’ve started to make yun my alt. Here is the funny thing. When you play as yun you have so much fun just rolling people due to how strong he is, but when i play against yun as akuma you will be frustrated out of your mind at the sheer retardation of this match. Probably just online play but I’ve lost matches to shitty yuns because i run into so much random shit, like i would randomly walk into a hp. shoulder or ex lunge will still hit me when i block on reaction.
However, if you do low neutral jump air fbs and yun is trying to divekick from far away most of the time the fireball will stuff him allowing you for a free srk followup.
exploding heart loses if yun delays any upkick even a little bit. i usually just safejump with 2x dash jump HK. although this loses to ex upkicks, it’s very easy to bait with empty jump late crouch tech.
I’m the complete opposite. I find most other matchups much easier now because those characters pressure is so weak compared to Yun’s I have no issue dealing with them.
And this worthless post brought to you by Stay Free Tampons. Stay Free, when you act like a woman with PMS, you need to cover yourself like a woman with PMS.
