Holy shit this made me piss my pants with laughter haha! 
SoâŚShin, how are you punishing blocked lp shoulders since the pushback makes c.lp and c.lk whiff completely?
The only thing I can think of that could punish it is super. Nothing else is fast enough or has enough reach.
I just push him out with cr mk. If he jumps and dive kicks you can dp and his up kicks whiff if he tries to ume punish you cr mk.
Ok, thatâs better. Because a few replies ago you said it wasnât safe on block and that you punished it with crouching lights.
Youâre 100% positive that the c.mk recovers in time to dp an immediate dive kick by yun? Iâm sure i caught shotos during recovery before, but maybe they delayed the c.mk too much. This needs some testing
Iâve tested all my stuff against Yun offline. Iâm not gonna tell you guys something works unless itâs confirmed through testing. CR MK is not punishable in this scenario. It is also not punishable as a max range meaty on his wake up save for possible ultra.
CR mk is not safe on hit from the shoulder. Maybe this is why you were punishing the recovery, they may have tried to counter poke after being hit.
FYI if Yun is doing shoulder attacks during blockstrings you get to teleport away for free. The recovery on whiffed shoulder prevents him from punishing a port.
I think c.MK is going to be critical in the Yun match up. You can use it for so many different applications and it stuffs so many of his moves of his.
On a side note I have been using HK.Tatsu to finish combos against Yun in certain situations. Iâve found a basic HP FADC combo ending with HK. Tatsu does more stun than any other option you can reliably do (600 which is over half of Yunâs stun). So if I get a punish after a couple knock downs this provides a good opportunity for stun. It also has the advantage that the damage isnât much worse when compared to a standard BnB, can be done on crouch opponents, the wake up pressure isnât half bad, and of course if it does stun the damage reduction is less. Considering you canât sweep the twins it is a decent option IMO.
This matchup changes alot of how Akuma approaches footsies. Historically Akumaâs best footsie, cr hk, is total garbage in this match, and his mediocre footsie, cr mk, is extremely useful.
Stand fierce xx ex fireball. Does the same stun as the tatsu combo but allows good oki if they quickrise and you DF after them. I also use this combo or the tatsu combo after a crossup air fireball mid screen. If I can throw them into the corner I still end with ex tatsu.
They both have their ups and downs. I like the Tatsu after a FADC combo since it uses less meter and does a little more damage for the same stun.
In the end it is all situational since obviously you canât use EX Fireball without meter and likewise you canât use Tatsu without landing a s.HP first. Though I will conceed the Oki off a fireball is better.
I just noticed something - Yunâs target combo if he finishes is not safe on block. A 5 or less frame move will punish it.
In that case, we could still cancel the crouching forward into U1, right?
Doesnât this need a crouching fierce (after fireball FADC) to be effective?
Thatâs been known for a while (I mean, the frame data has been out for quite a bit now) 2nd hit of target combo, where they actually stops if blocked, is -3, but you can pretty much do anything (-8) if you block the 3rd one.
Very possibly, but I donât know if our U1 beats Yunâs U1.
That would be something to test for the matchup thread, which ultras demon will beat and when to activate to winâŚhmmm.
I understand this was obvious, itâs just that they derp that move so much I was under the impression it was safe.
Yea it is one of those things where people donât realize they can punish, but if he finishes the combo it is unsafe. Though you have plenty of time to confirm before finishing the combo. Frankly the target combo actually kind of sucks to be honest. His other hit confirms and punishes are way better. The only real advantage of the target combo is you can take it off a poke and also it is easier to lead into Super.
No in fact it does not. The first hit of the HK.Tatsu picks people up out of crouching. So if you do something like
HP > Fireball > FADC > HP > HK.Tatsu
It works if they are crouching or not. It is really good at generating stun and gives decent Oki. afterwards.
I read it has 11f invincibility , should mean we canât just activate it after the flash, got to wait for about 7-8 frames. not sure how we can time this effectivelyâŚ
I agree, I totally feel the same when I see that.
Tried a couple punishes for the complete target combo btw, st.HP doesnât reach and we get the far version, cr.MP xx LK Tatsu whiffs, st.HK is just out of question (1f link, feels ultra hard, couldnât land once in like 6-7 tries), HP Shoryu hits only for first 2 hits (thus launches) and MP Shoryu just kills us since wonât launch.
Best punish (other then rape him with Ultra/Super) seems cr.LP xx Tatsu into Shoryu, or cr.MP xx fireball FADC sweep if we badly want the knockdown, but there isnât range for anything worth after the FADC.
Would a HK Tatsu FADC st.MP work? God I donât want to do that lol.
I donât agree honestly Loyal⌠I mean, st.MP is a great (hope you guys saw that hitbox ._.) poke with huge range, and having the possibility to pressure the opponent safely from distance and to go into Super alone is very decent. Now, add that:
- Itâs basically safe: itâs a chain after all so they canât reversal you, and if they block you are left at -3 with decent range between the opponent and you (Iâm not sure we can DP that, maybe Ken?)
- It (safely) builds some meter
- It does a solid 170 damage (200 stun is kinda meh but still)
- Geneijin off a 3 hit combo still does very solid damage
I mean, I wouldnât mind at all having that lol.
Uh, I⌠like this!
Just tried it in training, it sacrifices some very little damage off a FADC combo (15 damage off a divekick, cr.LP, st.HP xx fireball FADC st.HP xx Tatsu into Shoryu combo) to gain a little stun (+20 off the same combo) but gets some cool pushback (brings basically the opponent one character away from the corner, comboing from midscreen).
If they donât quickrise I guess we can setup some jump in shenanigans, otherwise we keep pressuring/baiting.
I think itâs worth nothing that if you arenât kind of close (donât have to be point blank, but thereâs some spacing with it, give it a try) it whiffs from st.HP.
Thereâs something I donât get though, didnât other players know about this? I mean, if it combos from a st.HP, thereâs no need to go for fierce Shoryu in case the opponent is crouchingâŚ
OT: dammit, I canât believe cleaning cache and cookies doesnât fix this, it keeps not loading about half the page and cuts everything between my last post and the previous one! Iâve got to load it in a different browser (using FF atm), meh.
quote=âdr4gz0r, post: 5572422â]I donât agree honestly Loyal⌠I mean, st.MP is a great (hope you guys saw that hitbox ._.) poke with huge range, and having the possibility to pressure the opponent safely from distance and to go into Super alone is very decent. Now, add that:
- Itâs basically safe: itâs a chain after all so they canât reversal you, and if they block you are left at -3 with decent range between the opponent and you (Iâm not sure we can DP that, maybe Ken?)
- It (safely) builds some meter
- It does a solid 170 damage (200 stun is kinda meh but still)
- Geneijin off a 3 hit combo still does very solid damage
I mean, I wouldnât mind at all having that lol.
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[/quote]
The thing is there are other hit confirm strings that generate way more stun and have more applications. It is a decent target combo, but if it is your only string your Yun isnât going to go far. It just doesnât generate enough damage. Not to mention once you learn the more advanced Super set ups this target combo becomes one of the worst ways to set it up since others do way more damage. For instance s.MP > LP Shoulder > Super is a harder set up since it doesnât naturally send the opponent airborne, but if you learn how get into the juggle this set up does more damage both in and out of the corner.
I am not saying it is necessarily bad, but rather there are other hit confirm strings that generate way more stun and have more applications. It is a decent target combo that is good for poking, but if it is your only string your Yun isnât going to go far. It just doesnât generate enough damage. Not to mention once you learn the more advanced Super set ups this target combo becomes one of the worst ways to set it up since others do way more damage.
Absolutely, iI think thatâs granted that you should not just be doing target combos, you wonât beat anyone with just that.
But being the range huge (itâs similar to Chunâs st.MP I guess) and the normal being -5 on block, it means that you should stop poking, the target not being there.
Canceling into LP shoulder is the best option for Geneijin, I agree, but if youâre not going for that (or you simply not have the meter), the target itself does more damage (170 vs 140).
Speaking of Geneijin setups, I donât think thereâs setups which beat this (I mean, st.MP into LP Shoulder), simply because all you can do to land it is a normal (like, cr.MK) canceled into LP shoulder and then canceled into Geneijin. The target adds one more stage, true, but itâs still better then any hitconfirm starting off a short (since you got to land a medium move before canceling into LP Shoulder), and thereâs no hitconfirm combo you can do from st.MP max range - not to mention how brainlessly easy it is to tap 3 buttons for a chain.
All in all you wonât win just for that, but I donât really think it sucks.
So how are we supposed to be using c.MK in this match-up? Mainly as a meaty wake-up and as a punish on moves which push back?
Still having a lot of trouble with good Yuns. All I will say though is his lunge punch ainât all that. You can fairly easily DP it from 3/4 screen. Probably a good demon opportunity too, but I havenât tried it.
Edit:
Okay Iâve been testing some things against Yun lunge punches. Hereâs what Iâve found.
*All of them can be demoned ON REACTION from longish range if you do the standard MK AA demon. I.e. buffer your demon into a MK. The lunge punches are airborne towards the end of their trajectory and the MK makes Akumaâs hitbox sink below the hitbox of the lunge. This technique catches all lunges, including the very fast recovery EX lunge. This is because the demon start up is over before the end of the EX lunge animation.
*At close range EX, HP and MP lunges can be reaction demoned in the above way. I canât do it on LP lunge, but maybe my reactions are slow. LP beats LP lunge clean, but I canât even get that out on reaction. LP also beats MP lunge at close range, clean. Probably works on HP and EX too.
actually, ending your BnB with a stand fierce reset probably does more stun (as much as ex shoryu), so if you wanted mainly stun iâd just do that. it gives you relatively the same position as the HK tatsu ender.
Yes, but your options off of a s.HP in general are very limited. The best (safest) one I know of is a set up I picked up from playing Shin when he did s.HP > HP Shaku but this isnât a safe string against some characters.
And actually it only gives you 10 more stun at the cost of worse position and 10 less damage. Also the damage reduction on s.HP reset is going to be higher than HK.Tatsu. IMO the HK Tatsu seems to be a better option compared to s.HP unless you know s.HP is going to stun. Now I will say s.HP reset builds more meter.
Hk.Tatsu allows you to keep some pressure for more stun and comparable damage to a normal BnB. It also can be used on crouching opponents. In the corner LP SRK is a better option because you recover way before your opponent