Another safe jump setup for Yun. If you get a DF throw immediately whiff cr lk and then jump and do a command dive kick ASAP.
Just played some matches against what i believe is the guy with the best Yun in Brazil right now. It wasnt even funny. This is clearly our worst matchup and im starting to think about a counter-pick against Yun.
I have some techonologies against him though, will post it later, but seriously, do you guys see top akumas winning against the large number of top yuns they`ll have to face so many times inside tournament brackets?
In time new tech and experience will stabilize the matchup, just as it did with Cammy.
s.MP = Dominates Yun’s dive kicks.
When I say AA is hard I refer to AA Demon. In terms of normal counters to Yun’s and Yangs are actually really weak dive kicks in the sense EVERYTHING beats them. You basically can throw out a s.LK and beat it. What they have going for them is speed. So if they catch you with your pants down it is good, but the dive kick is not going to beat anything.
I fear that without tatsu>sweep it’s gonna be A LOT harder than against cammy. Not to mention cammy doesn’t get a 450 damage easily confirmable super twice in 3 rounds. Oh yeah, she doesn’t have a command throw. This is never gonna become any better than 6-4. Winnable? yeah. Hard? Hell, yeah
Yeah but whiffing s.mp if they bait you with a short dive kick will get you c.mk xx lunge or c.mk xx shoulder xx GJ.
I know that normals are probably the better and safest way to actually stop dive kicks, but it still isn’t as easy as you’re making it look.
Btw, I saw chocolo doing AA sweep U1. 100% guess tho…after a blocked shoulder he went immediately into sweep U1 knowing that yun would very probably dive kicked. Like when you cancel a purposedly unsafe blocked sweep HOPING that your opponent will try to punish you. Still lost the round and match anyways =(
s.MP is fast enough that you have enough time to react to a naked dive kick and figure out if it is going to whiff or not. Hell you got more time to react to those dive kicks than half the stuff in marvel. And if you are truly worried about it then use s.LK. Seriously, anything beats these kicks. They are weak as hell.
I have been playing a lot of Yun so I can get a feel of what to expect at Evo… It is true his rush down is scary, but I think not for the reasons people originally thought. I am really finding the twin’s dive kicks aren’t what makes them scary at least not in the same way Rufus and Cammy did. The dive kicks are incredibly weak and require a lot of skill to even use them. If you hit too high on your opponent they can actually punish you and if they do anything besides stand there you eat damage. What makes the twins scary is the fact they have, in a sense, a standing vortex of options. Especially having a command grab it makes just blocking the onslaught scary. If you start getting impatient and look for quick ways out they have options to punish jumps and other quick outs.
I think for Akuma vs Twins, Akuma can win if he defense is super solid. This match up will test everyone’s defense more than it has ever been tested.
the bold sentence would be true if Yun didn’t have a 1.3 range command throw. As it stands now it’s just pure guessing…stand there and block and eat the cmd throw or try jumping away/pressing buttons and eat frame traps or more dive kicks into combos. Cammy tested if your defense was solid. Rufus tested it. Versus yun you gotta have good defense and good/lucky guesses.
Anyways, his dive kicks aren’t as shitty as you’re saying…i saw daigo, momochi, hsien and kindevu using them a lot and while they got stuffed a bunch of times, they worked perfectly in most of the instances. You also gotta remember that if you concentrate all of yourself into stuffing dive kicks you open yourself up to other stuff…just look at how many times people get swept by good rufus/adon players. It’s because you’re looking for them to lift the ass off the ground and don’t take enough care on what’s happening on the ground. Seriously, i’m playing yun myself and the people that beat my dive kicks more often are the same ones that get caught by the random lp shoulder, s.mp, f.hp or even ex lunge. The good old seth’s “dash cmd throw” also works wonders when people are concentrating too much on anti airs.
Yun just has so much stuff it’s impossible to be concentrated on everything.
Anything beats their dive kicks, but the timing’s very strict. And this is offline (of course). Online it’s a nightmare trying to guess. And if you COULD somehow get the timing right, why bother with st.MP, why not go for an SRK AA instead?. I’ve played a bunch of Yun’s online and it’s not as bad as I’d first thought. It’s not fun, that’s for sure, but it’s not impossible. If your opponent is stupid and being predictable with his divekicks, it’s not a problem, but when the opponent mixes it up and baits normals or srk, you’re fucked. I usually like to throw out st. LP or LK at random in hopes of catching them diving (or even doing a lunge punch), but again, if you mess up your timing, you’re eating a fat combo…
As you said, your defense has to be TIGHT in this matchup. Not just tight, but ZIP-LOCK tight! You fuck up even once and you’re gonna a see nearly half your life points vanish.
I think this matchup becomes 100% easier if we could have a reliable way of punishing his EX Lunge punch. Heck, even if we could escape it without putting ourselves in harms way would be good: TP is too easy and predictable. Jump-aways and DF escapes can be DP’d. Back dash gets blown up by a follow up lunge punch. Block and you get command thrown.
There’s gotta be an out to this bullshit…
Ok guys, I really think that people who are considering Yun a character that can be managed around during matches haven’t fought hard trained Yuns yet. I only saw true Yun matchup, yesterday, playing one of the best Yuns here right now, if not the best.
Besides getting raped, i was testing a whole bunch of stuff during matches, here are some of my thoughts.
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It seems that you have to play with 2 meters all the time. Being an overly agressive character, people will press buttons. Having 2 bars can get you SO many dp’s in the middle of strings and after blocked dive kicks. This can become really dangerous in long sets but can be a decisive factor in BO3 in tournaments.
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I played with U2 during 80% of the matches, and here’s why:
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Improved hitboxes makes c.mp/s.hp frame trap that leads to hadou fadc s.hp Ultra 2. This can deal really good damage and it is coming from a frame trap.
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You can punish Ex Lunge and Ex Should with teleporting backwards xx Ultra 2. I was able to hit him 4 times during 10 matches with this. Sometimes you just throw the teleport and if he does nothing, you’re somewhat safe. It has to be tested that if Yun is far away, if he can wait for the teleport to end and then punish the recover with Lunge punches. If he’s somewhat near you, this is definately possible. If he is far away, I believe even Ex Lunge will not reach you.
Now, with U1, what I saw is that safe palming Dragon kicks can lead to a c.mk cancel into U1 which will catch them landing and you don’t even have to react it that fast. The problem is safe jumping them which I am finding really hard to do.
What some people have said in this thread is completely true. Yun will make you start playing against dive kicks, trying to guess and punish them. Good Yuns will see that right away and will start to mindfuck you with all his entire different set. It’s similar to gief players making you afraid of SPD’s so that they can manage to jump-in even on top players for 1 or 2 times because they were so focused on footsies they simply didn’t imagine a jump would be possible. This happens with Yun, play against his dive kicks and you will get surprised by his other tools. This matchup is hard as hell.
Anybody considering counter-picking?
Yun’s long range options can be negated by c.MK. It beats shoulder rushes clean and goes under the rush punch. If you get a good enough of a jump on the EX Rush punch you can even punish it with a hit confirm combo. It’s hard to do against close rushes and shoulders, but at half to full screen it can do a nice job against it. Even if you can’t get the punish often you are at a frame advantage over Yun which gives you much better options than just blocking. If you are looking for it then you can get this reliably.
Contrary to popular belief, the twins actually take a large amount skill to make their rush down scary. Yun more so than Yang. If you make a incorrect read as Yun you can lose a ton of life and fast. If you go for a command grab and don’t get it you are wide open for a punish. I haven’t lost to a brain dead yun yet even online. Most just mindlessly dive kick and rush punch their way in, but if you counter it they have nothing. They also love to walk up command grab on wake up. A quick back dash and all of a sudden they are receiving a nice 290 damage punish. The average Yun player will not be doing well with him. Hell online I am more scared of Oni than Yun.
At the same time I’ve also played some really good Yun players as well and I can see why people are scared of him. When you put him in the hands of someone who actually knows how to make good reads that rush downs comes at you fast and furiously. You have to do your best to keep him out at all costs.
PS: Fun fact. It appears if Yun FADCs forward after a blocked Shoulder any strength he is punishable with at least a SRK. I tried in training mode as Yun to FADC forward safely while a friend mashed SRK. CAN NOT BE DONE. In fact it is a free U1! Yun is -3 or worse after a blocked shoulder FADC.
Yeah I meant AA demon, my bad -.-
Yeah so you’re basically saying that bad players suck even with yun and that he is only scary in the hands of a competent player. Wow that’s news. Obviously no one’s gonna lose vs those horrid ranked match yuns, but beating a good one with akuma is REALLY hard. Agree on the fact that he’s not as easy as most people think. Definitely not hard, but against competent players it’s not free wins
This.
Honestly, his pressure is just bloody painful. You crouch tech? He frame traps you to oblivion. You just block? He gets you with his evil command grab. And once in a while he’s gonna regular throw you and screw with your brain. Then, they proceed to divekick you to death. Heck, they are not even scared to DP, geez lol.
Maybe I’m going overboard here, but I’m really having a hell of a time against strong players (random scrubs are definitely fine, him being a low health with a full screen move). I’ll go whiny bitch mode and say it doesn’t feel fair when you’re pressured by him.
About his divekicks: I think their horrible hitbox is noticeable, and it’s not really impossibleto AA them (actually, MP DP works wonders, and a good player can make good use of st.MP and st.HP, they seem to be good given the proper spacing - just don’t whiff the st.HP), but what really pisses me off is the fact that they really land where they feel like it. God, I never know where to block after I get hit by the LK ones, they’re so ambigous…
Just saying that if you go to a tournament like Evo well equipped then you probably will not be fearing much from most Yun players. Just like most Akuma players won’t be doing much, You will have to worry if their name is Hsein, Wong, Daigo, Kindevu, or other above average players. The barrier is really high, but if you can break the barrier then Yun is damn right scary.
Also, contrary to popular belief, it’s a nightmare to USE Yun online…if there’s the slightest lag you’re never gonna combo from those divekicks, even if they’re crouching and you hit them on the shoulder. Especially for his wakeup “vortex” lag is REALLY bad. Not to mention the harder, more damaging, GJ combos and that damn cmd grab. You can forget those online. I’d go as far as saying that if lag is involved in the equation Akuma is probably the easier character to use among the two. And akuma isn’t “online friendly” at all.
Superlollo: Dude, chill out, be more polite. Youre too extreme on most of your message and almost every topic i read youre posting in ends up in aggressive argument.
Back to the strats. Nobody commented about U2, so I just keep on going. From what ive seen till now, most Akumas are landing U1 randomly line in wake-ups or in the middle of strings. I am trying to incorporate U2 since it can be confirmed. Also, the fixed meter gain that U2 gives to the opponent was fixed and this, for me, counts a lot. If its not the ending round, killing Yun with U1 is giving him all of the tools he needs to start the next round with full pressure and almost with Full Genei Jin.
Dont take this personally superlollo,because you have more experience with akuma and ssf4 then me, But I Wouldnt go that far…Hes not a nightmare to use,Ive used him in laggy situations and non-laggy situations…Hes still a problem lol. Maybe not as effective,but as you said,akuma isint too effective in lag situations either,. GJ combos may be tough to actually combo INTO, but once you get the combo going,anyone with half a brain can do a 400-500 damage GJ combo,lag or no lag."
In general the Yun match up isnt it impossible, but in a tournament scenario, two games out of three, as akuma,the chances of you beating a really solid yun player are slim to none in three games,and im not saying thats a fact, Thats just my opinion on the match,from what ive dealt with.
Well as I said the problem when there is lag is actually comboing from divekicks…it gets hard even in wakeup situations where it SHOULD be easier. Normal GJ combos are easy but if you want to do a more damaging one (for example after a lp shoulder xx GJ near the corner you can do s.hk > dash > palm instead of doing s.hk > lp lunge > palm for 40 more damage at the end of the combo and doing it with lag is impossible). But of course the main problem are dive kicks. Calling it a “nightmare” might be pushing it, but he’s definitely not online friendly. I know that in a laggy match I’d rather play akuma, his offence is much much safer and his link are generally easier (except lk tatsu>sweep, which becomes nearly impossible to be consistent with when there is lag)
I was blowing up Superlollo’s Yun after a divekick with Ken SRK mashing lmao, which was pretty funny. But what pisses me off so much is his never-ending supply of options, if you try and block he command grabs, try and counter you usually get stuffed, but the stupidest thing is his DP + K, when using the HK and on whiff it’s like a fucking teleport, completely unpunishable with most characters and stupidly stupid! People are always saying to shut up whining about Yun and deal with it, but honestly his pressure is so unforgiving its not even funny. I think I might just go sit in a corner and cry.