Haven’t seen you online in a while, I need some akuma training for my Yun, heheh! I’m playing a few matches tonight fi you want
how early/late are you hitting the kick button?
Just saw some videos of Diago “Tier Whore” Umehara playing as Yun (so his previous main gets a few nerfs and now he picks the most BULLSHIT character in the game… As if he wasn’t dominating enough!): So depressing!! 
But to confirm you last note, I had no issues DF Throwin Yun (when It was possible) either (and I suck!!..). Don’t know why some people made such a fuss about this?..
The real problem in this game is not Yun, it’s Oni.
Medium timing. Not early and not late.
Huh? Why?
I simply think that Yun isn’t SO easy to play as most people thought and you still need to be a good player to win with him. Right now everyone jumped on him, but 99,9% of those people suck balls big time. On the contrary Oni has a lot more easy shit going for him and he does a crapton of damage. Plus his srk has loads of invuln and a giant hitbox so that might give akuma some problems when it comes to vortex.
Give it some time and good Yuns will start surfacing and it’ll be a lot of trouble.
Yeah shin, what makes you think that oni is a problem? Do you mean a tough matchup for akuma, or that he’s going to end up toptier eventually? I’ve been playing Oni myself lately and he’s a very fun character to use. He does have pretty easy links and good damage, but i never thought of him as being a real problem?
It is hard to vortex Oni. I got SRK’ed out of the exploding hear and cross-up tatsu, speaking for myself.
This game is in it’s infancy with new characters, so all we see immediately is how powerful the easy to use characters like Yun are. Oni however is also that powerful but the things that make him so good you don’t see in the vids. His active frames and hitboxes are off the charts. We were messing with him in training mode and you can dominate other characters footsies with yours, including characters like Yun and Blarog. His combos do nonsensical damage and stun, like 400-500 range consistently for even simple combos. I really see Oni as being considered top tier within a year.
Yun is still more mindless than Oni, but Yun can be exploited for his weakness (wakeup game, mediocre footsie). Oni being a powerful footsie based character with a 3 frame 200 damage DP will always be solid imo.
Anyway the type of stuff Oni can do even at this early stage in the hands of a great player;
its not early stage anymore japanese played them for 6 months already and probably has figured out he’s crap. 3frame 200dmg dp but unable to cancel on block is fatal. btw oni have less than or about 900 stun. he’s easy for akuma imo…few
Yeah he’s got great normals but he also has a giant hitbox and his 200 damage dp cannot be FADCed and his fireball game is quite ass. I think he’s quite good because of obscene damage and footsies, but I don’t think that’s enough to make him top tier. Yun LOOKS easier (and might be easier in high level play) but for casual players Oni is just a braindead choice, that’s why now he might look more powerfull online. Every flowchart ken in this game is switching to Oni, there has to be a reason. Give Yun to a scrubby/mediocre player and he’s gonna get bodied really easily, give him Oni and he’ll still manage to give you some problems
Before the SF4 series players would do “umeshoryus” without the benefit of FADC. FADC is a crutch but is not needed to have an effective DP game. The only thing about having a DP that can’t be canceled is you need to be a more solid player.
As for his fireball game I think it’s only there to counter zone and in close pressure, but not for zoning out other characters.
Keep in mind that oni and e.ryu haven’t been out since the beginning. Not sure on the exact date, but they have had them for 2 months or something i guess.
Before SF4 people weren’t mashing during blockstrings (because that wasn’t possible) and as a consequence there was a lot less baiting involved. With normals having so little pushback in this game it’s really not possible to just “block” ALL the time like in older games (and no parry btw). Not to mention that a whiffed DP in this game is SO MUCH easier to punish than in other game, and most of the times for a lot more damage.
It’s not like a DP is crap because it cannot be FADCed but it’s definitely a weak spot. I’d rather take a 120 damage FADCable dp than a 200 non FADcable one any day of the week. In fact I’d be happier if Yun’s dp was FADCable but easier to punish on block/whiff…sorta like Yang’s.
I see Oni as a good character, but definitely not on the same level as yun/yang/fei/akuma/makoto/viper and probably even a few others. He’s probably better than e.ryu tho
DPing through block strings has been around since SF began. The difference was you had to time your DP, there was a certain level of execution. However at high levels it wasn’t hard.
The reason there was less baiting has less to do with the difficulty associated with DP through non tight pressure. The reason for less baiting is because the older games had far more true block strings and ones that went beyond chained jabs due in part to much more block stun. So from an aggressive standpoint one could vary the attack much better with true strings, frame traps and throw setups. In SF4 if you aren’t doing jabs, you can DP it. So the choice is jabs/bait.
Make no mistake however, players were still DPing your normal pressure in older games. This trend is not unique to SF4. What is unique to SF4 is that anybody can attempt this skill, and for many attempt it every singe time. lol
Almost nothing in SF4 punishes for more damage than on older games. In 3s whiffed DP means losing half your life. In Alpha series whiffed DP means opponent activates CC, gg.
Point is lack of FADC changes little from a competitive standpoint with a DP to protect yourself from pressure. Is it more risky with Oni? Sure, but all that means is Oni players will need to pick their spots better, just like you had to in older games. I like this limitation with the character because it makes him different from other shotos and puts his difficulty of use at a level that scrubby players won’t excel at.
BTW Oni’s LP DP has really fast recovery and is difficult to full punish especially if the Oni player understand that outside of jab/mp range it’s a hard move to whiff punish.
Makes perfect sense as i’m sure you got more ST/3s experience than I do. Still, what I was saying still sort of applies. With SF4 mechanics, having a FADCable dp means much more than in past games because people are gonna reversal during strings a lot more than in past game. Even in high level play.
In A3 you didn’t need to whiff a long recovery reversal to be fucked and lose a round via V-Ism CC. That game just had a different damage output than SF4, especially with CCs. As for 3s, I’d say that the damage you’re gonna suffer from whiffing a dp is the same as SF4…probably in SF4 you can even do more with a fully loaded ultra or some characters fadc combos.
Oni’s lp dp is the new ken’s jab shoryu…that’s another reason while everyone and their mommas are picking him up. He’s the new noob-friendly shoto (talking of low-mid level of play obviously)
The threat of some dude mashing DP is absolutely higher in this game. And due to having no FADC that threat is reduced when fighting Oni. Regardless good players will still make it work as they have in the past. Sure it’s gonna be a bigger risk, but he can still do it and that possibility carries a certain amount of respect. (at least in legit play)
I totally get what you’re saying, but from my perspective lack of FADC isn’t a big deal. We didn’t have that luxury in 3 million other iterations of Street Fighter so not having it again is sort of status quo for me.
regardless. i don’t think oni has top tier potential. probably floating around B at max. and surely not gonna be tournament friendly.
I could see him eventually end in A, but for sure not in twins/fei tier
I think people are underrating Oni and E.Ryu. I have been screwing around with both of them and have found some interesting things. They will probably still be mid-tier, but I don’t think they will stay in C-Tier as some people have put them.
With Oni’s moveset, DP, damage output, ability to blow up crouch techs and tricky mix ups, there’s just noway in my mind he can be anything less than B tier when it’s all said and done - if not higher.
Like Eita, I’m playing Akuma and Owni