Akuma's Confirmed Changes for Ultra SFIV (updated 23rd May, 2014)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
61

I see your point,maybe it is time for a change of plans. I always liked the offensive footsie/zoning side of Akuma but cause of the vortex,capcom have constantly nerfed him! And there are characters which you cant win them just by footsies(Vega,Rog,Sim, new characters now etc). Part of what made Akuma really good in footsies, was their fear of being swept…again vortex! Now if they can avoid the vortex, he is much less scary on the neutral game!

Now im pretty sure there will be no buffs…


At 19:55

James Chen was surpised with the “small” nerfs of Akuma and had a talk with Combofiend…and says that, Akuma didnt get enough nerfs cause of the DWU! Which that alone is a huge nerf…They even think that’s a good idea! Sooo that means dont bet on buffs. Capcom is bored of dealling with brainless whiners and just wants to sell the game by keeping the most people happy!!And this brings me to the next thing i want to point out…

Ive been using Akuma since ever…since SF4 was released, Akuma’s srk forums was flooded with a lot people asking,posting vids and being exited. AE and pretty much AE12 sealed the deal on Akuma’s popularity! The forum is almost dead now ,I count max 10 people still being active for months. Even Online the mirror match is just not there anymore!

Capcom made him a character that he is way HIGH risk, way LOW reward. Extreme case of a re-repaired glass canon. He is very hard and timefull to learn, that new or causal players wont even bother! If you cant be a sniper(low active frames) with him,then he is not your character,specially ONLINE! He is only viable on hands that either knows him inside-out,or they are patient enough to grind him to the top of rankings and tournaments! Even top players struggle with him…Tokido and Infiltration are trying their very hard! And if Infiltration wasnt sneeky with pocket characters,he wouldnt be wining Evo!! That makes Akuma no fun to use for the masses and thus low POPULARITY and HATE! Basicly Capcom killed Akuma!

Thats my honest opinion and here’s my proof…


19:27

The game was available in Japan Uk and US…nobody went there for Akuma…even Tokido didnt test him out. I watched the stream, he was at DH and USF4 was right next to him. He had the chance but he skipped it! 3 location tests and only ONE guy was seen trying him out…And not even ONE report or impressions…3 location tests!

62

So Tokido weighed in on Akuma’s changes as they stand currently in an interview held with Majin Tenshinshan:**

*"The changes to Akuma… Well, he was pretty strong in this version [AE v2012], so I was prepared for him to get weaker. I think making his airborne Hadouken weaker is a good choice, because it’s a bit too strong in the current version [AE v2012]. There were even some characters that couldn’t do anything against it at all. Isn’t this just the natural course of balance? He was a bit too strong, so they’re making him a little weaker.

They also added delayed wakeup, which in itself is a pretty big change for Akuma. Since his style is just to get that one knockdown on his opponent, and then defeat them with okizeme from there, they were probably anticipating how big this change would be for him, and kept that in mind while changing the character himself.

I’d like to continue using Akuma as my main, but there are also a lot of other characters I’d like to try out. In this current version [AE v2012], I could use just Akuma and still keep winning, but we’ll see what it looks like in the new version. If we’re talking about specific characters, then I’d probably want to go for Ken… I think Ken was already a good character in the game, and they’re making him even stronger, so probably Ken."*

63

http://chinamanlx.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/usf4-impressions-and-delayed-wakeup/

64

Nice summary, appreciate it. DWU is the great game changer for Akuma with his direct ‘nerfs’ being fine in my opinion. I feel this will be the biggest adjustment Akuma players with a solid grip of his setups will have to deal with - moreso than any previous revision of the game. I’m looking forward to the new style this may invoke for Akuma, though I do hope the impact isn’t too severe (for him and other characters who enjoy untechable knockdowns).

65

So 11 frames… thanks a lot for the info. Hope we can overcome this obstacle as well.

66

Hmm, i’ll be just fine IF i can have a universal set up off the FWD throw(mid screen). There should be enough time to spot this DWU…if there’s a visual cue,we should be able to spot it even off the tatsu - sweep! By the time the cr. HK recovers we should be able to change the set up! If they use this DWU mechanic, they will have to commit at it as soon as their back touches the ground. So if we have fast reactions, Akuma will be more less the same…PLEASE DONT TELL OUR PLAN TO COMBOFIEND :slight_smile:

67

No you will not be able to recognize the DWU and adjust your setup according to it on reaction even if it had a visual cue, that will simply help you to know the opponent’s habits on wakeup and how much he likes to delay it.

Anyway, we already knew you can adjust your setup with whiffed normals to catch a DWU attempt, the problem is that you the attacker have a lot of guessing to do to apply pressure, specially when there are stuff like normal reversal/backdash or delayed reversal/backdash to worry about. Even forward dash will be viable on regular wakeup if the opponent is expecting You to delay your safejump.

If you do a jump-in normal OS sweep vs normal wakeup timing and the opponent delays his wakeup instead, he’ll like 99% recover just in time to punish your whiffed OS sweep. So OS becomes very risky to use, then the opponent can mind fuck you between delayed wakeup and normal wakeup backdashes.

BTW, his calculation is wrong for total frame count in the posted link, last startup frame is also the first active frame so you can’t count it twice. Anyway crouching jab is a normal with 11 total frames, which is even better than far jab because it allows you to use it even when you’re super close to the opponent like in corner situations.

I feel DF dive kick will be one of the most used options, it can catch most backdashes in the game for an air reset which is better than nothing, if the opponent delays his wakeup then meaty him with normals after landing.

Man all this bullshit is so unnecessary to deal with for someone attempting to continue his God damn offense.

68

Just want to say Tokido is an idiot to the biggest order for co-signing any nerfs. That essentially tells Capcom that the 2nd best Akuma in the world thinks the changes are just fine, and they aren’t. Mark my words if he doesn’t get compensation or at least a few of those nerfs reverted that he will not be very good.

69

All of Akuma’s nerfs are completely fine in terms of how strong Akuma will be in USFIV, they’re very annoying yes but overall they’re not that big of a deal when you look at the big picture. However the big issue is DWU, which changes up a big part of Akuma’s damage outcome, without that we’ll have to focus more on landing footsies damage and counter hits and Akuma isn’t the most efficient at those.

Akuma won’t be a bad character, that’s 100% guaranteed. How good he’ll be though will depend on how we’ll adjust to the DWU change.

I’m hoping for one of these 2 things:

1- Akuma will be given at least Something useful, it really sucks and depressing seeing your character getting nothing but nerfs with every edition specially if you’ve been playing him since Vanilla SF4, something like improved overall damage/stun will be great or instead give us dat far roundhouse on block vs everyone would be Reallly good to compensate for the different playstyle we’ll be using.

2- They just see that DWU is a bad idea and not include it in the final version because it affects too many characters in a bad way, even low tier characters who didn’t need more problems to deal with at all, if they did this I’d be just fine with the nerfs and the EX tatsu fix and don’t even want buffs, Akuma will remain very strong without DWU.

70

The nerfs done to Akuma on his jump-back fireball and cr.hk cancel made sense. The FADC removable on the 2nd and 3rd hit was annoying. Now ken is better and with the only hit confirmable srk. I don’t get the logic there.

If the impose delayed wake-up it would be fair to ask this of capcom

  • Cr.mk = more active frames and better hitbox. With his walk speed a true block string with cr.mk > fireball would be a bit too strong. So make it active by one more frame and an improved hitbox would be nice.
  • St.Mk = reduce start up by 4 frame and -1 on block. New pressure up close. Really nice move already but it would be nice for improvements on this normal.
  • St.Hk = extended hitbox for FADC combos (I know it may be unconfirmed but it better be happening. I hate cammy, dudley, vega falling out when crouching sometimes. )

Wish list. Improved anti-airs. I could careless about air to airs. but anti-airs at least.
**Cr.HP = Improved hitbox or startup as it trades or loses more often then it should for an anti-crossup anti-air. It should have 5 frame start-up as well. I don’t understand why Ryu would get a 4 frame anti-air that is active for 8, double the amount, while akuma gets a 6 frame anti-air that’s only active for 4f’s!!! It’s not even active for the whole duration of the move. Cr.Hp is for anti-air purposes only. No one has ever been called broken for having too good of an anti-air. At least make it dependable. Or not negative on hit would be nice… whatever…
**Fix all pursuit properties on all srk’s = because its the stupidest glitch ever. After the ex tatsu and sagat’s u1 in the corner glitches.
**Copy and Paste ryu’s stand lk to akuma’s. = So I can deal with Yun. Stupid character. Sorry. Salt.

-increase stun or able to link ultra two off of red fireball during juggle state only. = Because there is not literally no point in even doing this combo anymore. Especially since they took away the hit confirm off of HP srk and Mp srk. It’s just useless now.

  • Sweep damage buff = Because without a vortex no one will be scared of this damage thing and we can’t get much more than a sweep in most footie situations.

Anything else is really is pointless. If they want to f**k to screw us with delayed wake-up I hope to get at least the anti-airs of cr.hp and the srk’s buffed AT LEAST.

71

c.hp and Akuma’s AA game via SRK is perfectly fine.

A slightly further forward reaching hitbox on c.hp would be nice if they permitted c.lp > c.hp to be a one frame link in Ultra though. That’d be a nice little buff seeing our oki game is taking a hit. Agreed re: improving fs.hk’s combo utility from FADC fireballs. That’s one are I’d like to see tightened up.

72

Why not a special cancelable far st MP
Or a hk tatsu fadc on standing that have frame advantage to combo follow up. Just like it does on crouchers.
A bit less push back on block for cr LP so we can “3 x cr.lp” on block Boxer Abel and co to have a go away block string.

73

hk tatsu FADC always gives +3 on hit, it’s just damn hard to combo after it being a 1 frame link.

74

Lol this is hilarious. I should just stop playing now because it seems like I’ll have to re learn everything in Ultra anyways. On the bright side at least DWU doesn’t only fuck up Akuma. RIP Seth/Ibuki and maybe Viper.

However it will be interesting to see if other possible setups/solutions are found for DWU, which they probably will be.

75

You people just dont get it…Akuma is not a croud favourable character…they dont care if they kill him or not. Its what the most want in order to sell the game! Dont wait any buffs for him. Maybe you get something like +16 on ultra 2 with all the scaling after 5 hits…provided you wont get poked out ouf DFK with that retarded hurtbox he is recieving!

76

Akuma has been my main for a while, and i can tell you this right now. This nerf will completly kill him. it’s not even the nerf which is the problem. Delayed wake up means his vortex is now dead, his footsies are AVERAGE at best. His standing roundhouse second hit whiffs on over half the cast, which means they get a free punish. His air fireballs are now less viable, and what’s more you have little health FOR NO REASON, what’s the use lowering his health. If they don’t change any of these then i’ll have no choice but to drop akuma and go to a more footsie based char such as e ryu. He has more damage, more health, more stun and what’s more his footsies are better since his low foward fire ball is actually a true block string.

I can safely say akuma is most likely going to be a much lower tier character. The only plus he has is high damage, but most characters can deal pretty much the same damage but have higher health, and less risk, so what’s the point?

To tell you the truth, when i looked at initial nerfs, i thought it wasn’t too bad and fair enough. Unblockables, meh they needed patching for everybody, jump back fireball didn’t really hurt, knockdown demon - I could use low forward to cancel demon. BUT then they decided to nerf the setups, i.e. demon flip kick meaning we can’t use it to stuff out moves anymore, dp fadc on first hit only, but the delayed wake up killed me.

Guess i’m picking up evil ryu for usf4 since his buffs will bump him up the tier list by far.

One frame makes no difference? Yes, akumas low forward 9/10 gets beaten by ryus when his starts up one frame quicker, frame data does matter. Having one less frame means that his dp can now get beat out by other peoples, which means you can no longer go for that read without yours getting beat out.

Changes to make his nerfs and game changes balance out: Quicker startup on c.mk and f.hk, more damage on f.hk, bump damage by 10 on med punch and low forward. Give his fireballs one less frame of recovery, give him more hp and more stun. Make his sweep do 10-20 more damage. Make st.roundhouse no longer whiff on the entire cast. Ability to combo on overhead on counter hit would also be nice i.e. knockdown, since overhead tends to push away quite far. Quicker startup on cr.hp so it’s easier to anti air with and combo into when fadcing. Not all of these are needed but most of them would be nice such as roundhouse no longer whiffing on entire cast.

77

invul frames of DP are very important for anti-airing purpose avoiding trading when you try to anti air deep/late.

78

Nah. I’m looking at the big picture - which obviously includes DWU - and yes it is certainly a big deal and no the changes are not fine. Those nerfs + DWU = Akuma is done unless he receives buffs in other areas, or as you’ve suggested, they remove DWU.

At the very least, that sweep nerf is TERRIBLE. No ifs, and, or buts about it. Raging Demon is never a mindless option at a high level. Even when cancelled from sweep to anti air or to beat focus, you need a combination of spacing, timing, and excellent reactions.

The DP nerf in terms of only being able to FADC the first hit is fine if it affects everyone. Ken still being able to pressure afterwards is stupid. Universally nerf it, or don’t nerf it.

DP invincibiltiy reduction is no big deal, the air fireball nerf is uneccesary, and the hurtbox increase on demon flip kick might finally put an end to Akuma’s high level relevance. His footsies are painfully average, he lacks the ability to progress forward with a truly threatening button outside of sweep vs any character who can duck st.hk, his damage isn’t anything special, his health is the 2nd lowest in the game, and he can’t combo into his ultra from a pop up.

79

You more or less nailed it 100% with this post. I agree with everything. Health buff + damage buff + normal buff and then those nerfs will make sense.

One thing I want to point out to you people who are saying the changes are fine with Akuma is that the majority of the roster is receiving significant buffs. Will Akuma be absolute unplayable trash? Of course not, but with all buffs coming the majority of the roster outside the top 7, 5 characters who will certainly be strong being added, and the addition of delayed wakeup, can you honestly say Akuma will be legitimately GOOD? Like top 10-15 good? Because I honestly see him getting beat down by a lot of characters. If the game were released right now, Akuma for sure would not be top 10…maybe not even top 15.

And let’s not even get into red focus nerfing the usability of st.hk vs characters like Makoto, Fei Long, Abel, and Adon.

Lol, the good thing is that there’s still plenty of time. Would you guys be interested in getting together to form a document expressing our concerns and requests? I believe with a little effort it would at least reach Combofiend.

80

So, uh, I’ve been going around on the character forums reading different threads about Ultra because I find it interesting to read other peoples opinion and thoughts about this.

I won’t get into a discussion about Akuma’s strengths and weaknesses since I don’t play him at all, so my thoughts and such wouldn’t be very informative.

I thought I would post a little information, seeing that a lot of you are very passionate about not wanting Akuma to be left dead in the water when Ultra comes out(I agree that no character should be left out of this update, no matter how salty I sometimes become when fighting Akuma :P).

So, there are two important things that have been confirmed:

  1. All those changes you have seen in the official change logs? Yeah, those are only half of it. It’s been confirmed that Capcom are focusing on only one aspect of each character at once(Strength and Weakness).
    Just look at the changes and tell me that you didn’t scratch your head a bit, especially in the original Japanese Loc test(keep this in mind, this is important). Mid-tier characters like Zangief got hit HARD by the nerf bat. In the original Japanese Loc test, at the cost of getting knockdown on EX GH(Green Hand) and -2 on light GH, he lost is ability to combo into any GH from lights. + the nerfs to his SPD and st.mp, he was essentially destroyed. This is really weird compared to the fact that C. Viper, who is considered high tier by a lot, got a large amount of buffs with no character nerfs at all. Doesn’t that sound really freaking weird?
    There are a lot of weird stuff as well. More characters could now combo into Ultra from normals thanks to a mix of buffed frame advantage and reduced start-up(Guile, Vega for example), some moves got impossible to beat while others got obliterated(Sakura’s j.hp is ridiculous now) and some stuff that is completely against some characters archetypes(Vega with 4f invul on EX Scarlett).

Now, some of this stuff was actually changed in the US/Europe Loc tests. For example, Zangief could now combo into light GH with light normals(which turned out to be insanely good). Changes was added and removed, and some stuff was confirmed to be bugs, like Vega’s Crystal Flash was -8 on hit(still had the -2 on block, so it was better to get by it instead of blocking it :P). This transitions nicely into the nest point.

  1. ALL CHANGES, INCLUDING THE SYSTEM CHANGES, ARE NOT FINAL.
    NOTHING from what you have seen in the location tests are final. Some stuff are very much likely to stay, like Dee Jay’s and Balrog’s(Boxer) changes, but never final. This time to the contrary of previous updates, the SF department of Capcom are very open to the users. Things are still being tweaked and changed about this update. We may very well see that Delayed Wake-Up get removed as this change doesn’t just hurt Akuma. It hits really hard on other characters who are almost 100% relying on their mixups like Dudley and the grapplers, so I agree with that it needs a bit of tweaking or removed.

So, at this point of time, don’t be too upset about the changes. Not everyone agrees with both the buffs and nerfs of different characters(I have never seen that many people complain that a character who is their worst match-up have received unfair nerfs :P). There will be more location tests in the future, so be a bit optimistic for now.
Not saying that you shouldn’t complain about some of the changes you see. Just remember that this time, Capcom is actually listening. :stuck_out_tongue:

(wow, this turned out to be longer than I thought. sorry about that lads)