Maybe we will get an EX Taunt as “buff”.
Good post. Once I saw you say you don’t play Akuma I was expecting to read about how we’re all delusional and stop bitching because Akuma was broken before and he will be top tier. A level-headed person who’s on the outside looking in is a rarity, so much respect.
Can you link me to the post/article where it says they’re only focusing on strengths or weaknesses for each character? That, more than anything you said, gives hope.
When I saw Vipers buffs and Akumas nerfs, I literally busted out laughing.
BTW guys, another buffs I’d like to see is U2’s hitbox lowered to hit crouchers, for the damage to be the same even when done out of teleport, and for it to have a faster start up time.
Yep that’s one hope we have is that changes aren’t final. Hopefully the final changelog isn’t as retarded. Remember in the AE 2012 loctests E.ryu had his sweep buffed to 6 frame, but got changed back to 7f. Anyway hopefully we get more info from Capcom Cup.
I expect Akuma’s announced changes are final. The best hope right now is that he has some as yet to be announced buffs.
For example, the EX tatsu ‘fix’ while not a buff is something they haven’t shared formally yet, which in itself would make for some fine propaganda to ease Akuma players a little in light of the nerfs (and only nerfs) they’ve been so kind to hand us again.
If he got his cr.mk xx hadoken to connect reliably in footsies then he would be just fine with all the nerfs and would probably stay top 5, since he would be able to get great damage off his cr.mk with 2 bars of meter, similarly to E. Ryu.
You guys also seem to forget that he has a bunch of functional tools which already makes him really strong even without a vortex. Having a great walkspeed, a great sweep, great zoning tools, a 3 frame reversal/anti air, good frame traps, and a teleport is not something which any other character can say about himself. Infiltration mostly wins using these tools, and NOT by abusing set play. Perharps if you guys actually practiced playing street fighter and tried to get better at that instead of practicing “throw, forward dash, whiff cr.mp, hk flip throw”, then you would realize that Akuma will still be good in USF4, easily staying top 5 with a few improvements.
OK, so I said that I wasn’t going to get into a discussion about Akuma’s strengths and such, but here I go.
Yes, Akuma have a lot of strong points other than his mixups. He got a very powerful DP, capable of doing a lot of damage both with and without meter and even Daigo, who is arguably the best SF player in the world and unarguably the best Ryu, agrees that Akuma’s footsies are great(he admits this in his interview). Even better than Ryu’s when he’s without meter(which is, of course, one of Ryu’s specialty. Ryu is the #1 character in meter management and usage in this game). But there’s no denying the fact that offensive pressure and mixups is where Akuma is the most powerful.
However, with the changes that have been announced, it seems like Capcom are trying to make SF4 less focused on frame perfect mixups and more about direct approaches, especially in the offense.
It’s now very much supported by Akuma’s changes too. Slightly less defensive ability with the extra recovery on backwards jumping fireball, no longer able to FADC all of the hits on his mp/hp DPs(which is supposed to be Ken’s specialty. Most of Ken’s offense and damage output revolves around his DP which balances out this unique strength). cr.hk no longer able to cancel into demon is a slight nerf to his fear factor in footsies and Demon Flip Kick nerf makes it so that it can’t be thrown out against people without powerful anti-airs(hell, even Guile who have one of the best air defense in the game have a hard time dealing with that).
These changes, including the system changes, show that they are either going two ways with Akuma.
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Damage Powerhouse(AKA almost-Oni).
They are trying to make Akuma less about mixups and focus more on his damage output. You will probably see no more nerfs to his defensive ability in the future and more focus on his damage, making him more like Oni in that regard(without the burst damage ability to combo into Ultra). Not really the most fun way to change Akuma, I admit(you will probably get a re-skin and renamed into Almost-Oni :P). -
Pressure and Offensive ability/Glass Cannon(AKA Super Cammy or Makoto)
This will probably be the most fun version of Akuma out of the two. Now focus less on his post-knockdown mixups, they will focus more on his ability to pressure the opponent and open them up, which is what Akuma is also known for. Demon Flip Kick will mostly be used during pressure, which makes it harder to anti-air that compensates for the hitbox nerf, and Akuma’s ability to convert hit-confirms into big damage and/or knockdowns makes him scary. Similar to SSF4 Cammy and Makoto, he will be able to put on immense pressure and grounded offensive mixups at the cost of defensive ability. And while your normals aren’t as powerful as Cammy’s or Makoto’s, your wide arsenal of specials make up for it. It will be a bit tougher to deal with pressure, but Akuma will most likely receive buffs to his grounded offensive power.
So, yeah, that’s my 5 cents on the matter. Probably a bit faulty, but oh well. I always consider a outsiders look on stuff important, so hopefully this was decent.
Woops, sorry. I should have mentioned that it was Combofiend that mentioned this. Both in interviews and such. I’ll get you some proof soon, but at the moment I don’t have much time. Writing this post took longer than expected.
Oh I forgot to add that they should make his fireball FADC combo into st.hk more reliably (not sure how character and spacing specific it is but i can get it to work sometimes)
Also Akuma is always the character who I end up going back to, and as I see myself improve as a fighting game player, I can see more and more clearly just how good he can be in the right hands. Learning and practicing fundamentals is probably something many of you should invest some time into doing judging by your posts, as I see exactly the same line of thought which I had back when I started playing the game, and started playing Akuma. Akuma as a character reflects your ability as a player IMO, the better you get, the more you can appreciate his tools, whereas as a beginner you might consider other characters to be a lot more powerful. With delayed wakeup and the nerfs he got, he will obviously need some compensation to stay in top 5, but even if he doesnt get anything he will still be powerful enough to be tournament viable in my opinion.
First paragraph regarding the c.mk x hadouken buff is good. Second is horrible. Are you not seeing his great zoning tools and great sweep are being nerfed, or did you skip past that part? Sure he might still stay top 5 with a few improvements, but those improvements aren’t currently present, which is why we are commenting on what we PRESENTLY see and what we’d like to be added in the FUTURE. To say we’re just complaining because we don’t “practice playing street fighter” and only practice the vortex is arrogant, baseless foolishness. Keep it out of the thread breh. The changes are bad and overdone when combined with the implementing of delayed wake up. It has nothing to do with our skill level. It’s about using experience and common sense to see the character’s current game design and how it would translate if these changes stick.
What does still being good mean to you? Top 10? Top 15? Top 20? Because right now I don’t see it. Explain to me why he will still be good in comparison to characters like Ken, Evil Ryu, Chun Li, Makoto, Balrog, Viper, Yang, Yun, Vega, Rolento, Ryu, Cody, Juri, Abel and Deejay? Is it the mediocre footsies that have been drastically nerfed due to his only truly great footsie tool - sweep - now being focus-able with zero worries? Is it the hurtbox demon flick kick nerf that will hurt his pressure from the air and “throw, forward dash, whiff c.mp, hk flip throw” set play? The DP FADC nerf? Or is it the air fireball nerf? Maybe st.hk still going over 75% of the roster’s head will keep Akuma great…
With massive nerfs to his zoning, footsies and vortex how will Akuma be powerful? Powerful to me is a top 8-10 character for the record - not just being “viable”. What amazing tools are we missing out on that only skilled players who don’t rely on vortex can see? The walk speed, the 3 frame DP and the teleport? What else?
Dude no offense but it’s Akuma mains like you who give us a really bad reputation overall, the fact that you even compared Akuma to characters like Cody and SPECIALLY Deejay is just embarrassing, he’s a MUCH more complete character than those, Deejay is an awful character for God’s sake.
You’re really exaggerating the nerfs man, remove DWU and Akuma will 100% be very solid, we just have to see whether Capcom will stick with it or not, and if it remained we can hope they’ll be give us some buffs to compensate because knockdowns is still a big part of Akuma’s game.
Your main character getting constantly nerfed throughout the series SUCKS, trust me I know, but once the sodium has lowered and you look at the big picture, it’s really not as bad as you’re turning it out to be.
I’m talking about those characters with the changes they have announced for USF4 - not their current builds. Yes, with their current build I agree that USF4 Akuma would still be ahead of them. I’m talking about with all their buffs, all of Akuma’s nerfs, and the implementation of DWU I believe they will be as good if not ahead of Akuma in the next version.
You keep saying its not that bad, but then you always say “if they just add this” and “if they just remove this”, but I am living in the present - not the theoretical future. Yes, Akuma will be fine if DWU removed, but guess what? DWU is still in the current build, so should I say “Akuma will be fine guys the buffs and the removal of DWU are coming for sure :)”? Nah.
I’m cool with either of these options really, but I think even with damage buffs that his normals need to be enhanced if they’re taking the focus off zoning and mixups and more on footsies + damage. He definitely could use a buff in damage on opponent’s who are crouching. With no meter or only 1 bar, Akuma’s damage from crouch is pretty damn mediocre. Even with 2 bars, it’s situational and difficult to get big damage from linking into st.hk from fireball FADC.
Your optimism is making me excited. Stop it lol. The one thing that gives me hope is seeing all the those Viper buffs and knowing that this can’t be the full story. There’s going to be a lot of angry Akuma, Adon, Sakura, Fei Long, Cammy and Ibuki players if their character got nerfed up and Viper is still has beast as ever LOL.
Deejay still sucks with USFIV changes.
Deejay is also affected by DWU, and he’s already low tier so he’s not exactly thrilled to face more issues.
Even with DWU added, Akuma isn’t as bad as You’re making him. He’ll have a higher difficulty cap, that’s for sure, but in the right hands he’ll still be a solid character. For example if you can constantly get cr.mp CH confirm into far roundhouse 1 frame link, that’s excellent damage for counter hits, but I’m unfortunately not good enough to do it vs characters who dodge the 2nd kick crouching because I suck.
What is your definition of solid? Because while I said the character in his current state is “done”, I’m not seriously saying he’ll be unusable. I’m saying he won’t be a top character or even a very good one. I believe all the characters I mentioned will be as good as him, and in most cases, much better. Maybe add Dudley and Dhalsim, too. Also forgot Oni.
We’ll just agree to disagree friend. You lead the optimism brigade, singing the praises of CH c.mp into st.hk and I’ll continue giving us Akuma players a bad reputation by telling what I believe to be the truth about the state of the character in the current USF4 build. Dummies think the character will be great no matter what is done to him because “he’s Akuma”, but I’m not with that, so I’m going to speak my mind.
I’m only optimistic when compared to you lol, I’m not at all satisfied with Akuma’s changes and actually been suggesting/complaining to give Akuma buffs in the main USFIV rebalance thread because I feel he deserves them with the current game changing DWU addition, which started more infamous Akuma mains vs the world discussions because apparently mentioning the words Akuma+Buffs in the same line is completely forbidden.
I’m not one of those who’ll list Akuma’s tools like a cheezy tv commercial and pretend he’ll be top tier forever like some stupid people do who don’t have a clue about Akuma, but at the same time I won’t pretend like it’s the end of the world either. With the DWU addition, I can see Akuma falling to high mid tier which is pretty solid, but like I said the difficulty cap will be really high with him IMO, even more so than his current state.
So we’re more or less on the same page. That’s good. I honestly don’t see him having high tier tools. I see him more in the middle of the pack trending downwards.
What are some changes you’re lobbying for in that thread?
This thread is really going the wrong way! Its as good as closed! Salt up and play the game as crapcom designs it with Akuma or change main! Blah blah about buffs and nerfs! Ifs and buts…How hard is it for you guys to understand and accept that the Akuma’s era being high up the tier list is way past! He is the only character i enjoy the most…but capcom and a lot of people think that its time for other characters to shine.
Capcom never listens to what akuma players want or need! Deal with it! I have a big cache of salt for USF4! Lets see if i am going to use it all, or drop the game!
Got to play a bit of Ultra tonight. In the latest build, Akuma’s stand mk received a buff. It now forces stand on hit against crouching characters.
Interesting. This could have use if we could confirm into it without having to be super close.
Anything else worth sharing that hasn’t been discussed here? Keep in mind we are yet to see any footage of Akuma in Ultra so we’re keen to hear anything.
Yep I wonder if the close version will activate from a range unlike in AE 2012.
The only difference in using a close mk after FADC (to use an example where you’re sure to have the range) instead of a cr.HP to stand an opponent is the “tracking, moving forward effect” that allow a cr.mp st.HP follow up to add damage or push further into corner with HK tatsu ender.
Kineda if you have another chance can you check tastu Fadc fr advantage on stand and croucher ?
They increased ex-tatsu “vacuum” effect. Supposedly it will give Akuma new combo opportunities but haven’t had enough time to test yet. Delayed wake up hurts Akuma’s vortex game directly. 2+ frames to air fb isn’t that bad of a change overall (coming from someone that loves playing lame). The bigger hurt is not being able to hit confirm SRK anymore.
Another small buff is the ability to ex air fb off demon flip kick. Will try to test more tmrw.