I dont think the forward throw will be as big as a nerf as some people make it out to be, yeah the dashx2 shenanigans won’t work, but im sure a new set up will be found once someone starts counting all the frames, my guess from looking at it now it will be a forward throw, dash, whiffed lp, HK demon flip, but when the game comes out it will be easier to find out all these things, and with technical genius’ like Tokido using Akuma (assuming he sticks) im sure we will see him come up with something as well.
In my opinion the St.HK -2 on block is one of the bigger nerfs, keeping zangief away was always a game of patience because most akumas like to play an aggressive game, ST.HK was always a great tool, it had amazing range, can combo on hit confirm and we just simply always safe on block, now that its -2 gief can command grab you after one of these and we all know how much that hurts akuma. Hopefully if it’s done from full range and blocked, gief is out of distance to command grab you, but this would also probably mean if it hit from this distance, you probably couldn’t combo much out of it.
The main problem is that so far it seems to negate setups that offer us the choice between a frontal or cross-up attack. To safely cross-up, we needed those extra frames to maintain safe advantage. What this means is that from a forward throw as it stands currently, it looks like our safe options are all going to be front facing which chops in half the defensive choices opponents have to make.
Special emphasis on ‘seems’ by the way. Nothing is final and we don’t yet have the official version to begin testing new setups with.
The thing about this matchup is that all of Ryu’s buffs have improved his zoning ability. His HDP only makes it more scary. Even if it trades, 160 dmg is crazy (200 if a counter hit occurs). +10 fireball was a gift from the heavens for a ryu player like myself. At this rate, it’s at least 6 to 4 in ryu’s favour. He can bait whiffed sweeps with slk and instantly whiff punish everything with his insanely fast 5 frame sweep. From there, there’s an ambiguous mixup where he can either crossup air tatsu you or go for a simple safe jump (note the fact that it’s massive damage if he has super…). Really, Akuma’s in shit unless he gets his vortex back, with maybe a few zoning options? It won’t be an impossible matchup, but it’ll definitely be harder…
Even WITH Akuma’s unfucked vortex setups (most of which are hazy against Ryu anyway) its a very difficult matchup. Lets say hypothetically that Akuma was unchanged in 2012 and Ryu received his buffs, it would still be in Ryu’s favour.
Ryu only nets 160 damage if it hits deep. 60 if it hits from the 3rd active frame onward.
Which is fine. Any player worth their salt can AA properly with Ryu. The real test will be finding out just how large that active hitbox is for the initial deep hit. People balk at Oni’s inability to cancel his DP which in my opinion is a dead argument. If you can AA properly, Oni’s dp is beastly as the initial hit has a pretty large and forgiving hitbox - especially the EX version which yields 190 damage. I suspect this initial hit of Ryu’s hp dp will have a pretty big hitbox also. Hopefully not as comically huge as he had in vanilla - that shit was crazy.
If it’s that bad of a jump in, he’ll just LP SRK and rape you lol.
Anyway it’s the same for Sagat, and he doesn’t seem to have any trouble landing full damage.
My point is at that range where hp shoryu extends out and hits, unless you stuck out a normal, you’re probably not going to see the full 160.
Mmh what kind of scenario are we talking about? I can only see some long range punish which would close the round, and even then he can just cr.MK xx HK Tatsu.
I mean, up to know you don’t use it anyway as a reversal, with the crappy 2f invincibility…
Well Shin was talking about the extended range and damage making him a true no fly zone, so I speaking of jumping in to close space during zoning.
You could always empty jump DP’s to reduce the damage you take since Vanilla. This scenario has always existed.
Im not saying it hasnt.
Then why point it out?