loltimandingo ?
Do you guys think Ono’s plans to make throws easier to escape via making jumps faster will help Akuma or hurt him?
"? Throws are too easy to land in Capcom’s eyes and they plan to tweak some things to fix this. Ono wants jumps to have fewer startup frames.
? Capcom wants to give the rest of the cast more tools for countering Dragon Punch/Tiger Uppercut attacks."
I don’t think this will hurt Akuma too much. Tiger uppercut and Shoryuken were very counterable in SF4 to begin with. It’s just the FADC that made them safe. We’ll see what they do about that. I’ve always felt FADC should take 3 bars instead of 4.
Fewer start up frames on jumps would benefit rufus, juri, and anyone else with a dive kick more than anyone. Akuma’s demon flip doesn’t count as a regular jump, so I don’t know how much this will help him, but I don’t think it will hurt him much either.
As long as Akuma keeps his vortex and his damage I’m good. A comboable Ultra is more than likely coming at the sacrifice of choosing between that or the demon. We’ll all probably end up taking the comboable ultra vs most characters, and going with the demon a few others like Balrog(to own TAP and ex dash moves) or Chun Li(high jumps makes for easy demon punish)
EDIT - Something tells me Capcom isn’t aware of crouch teching or something.
^ I really don’t see how they think throws are EASY to land… wtf? Half the reason why SFIV is as turtley as it is, is because it’s DIFFICULT to land throws - and when you do it’s not like you’re at a huge advantage and taking off a good amount of your ops hit points. ( Of course Akuma has the Exploding Heart Technique ). I mean, in WW throws where fast and damaging. My little group of family relatives would actually get pissed and
And I don’t see how making jumps faster will help with escaping throws. Airborne first frame of jump, no? Or do you actually have to wait 4F until you are airborne?
I don’t think “counterable” means what you think it does… how exactly are you countering Ryu’s SRK? A miraculous divekick?
It doesn’t help that the things that work against TU and SRK are pretty broadcasted, so all the opponent needs to do (once they realize that it won’t work) is dash forward instead…
Do you mean PUNISHABLE? Because Ryu’s LP SRK (and Ken’s, to a lesser extent) aren’t THAT punishable- you have a tiny window in which to do anything, which is fine for most characters… not so much for Akuma.
And thats assuming you blocked…
Really? Is SRK -> FADC really that much of a problem outside the context of Ryu comboing into Ultra?
The problem is that Akuma’s SRK has horrendous recovery time AND if you hit with only one of the hits (for either the HP or MP versions) they’ll recover long before you regardless of the situation and wtfpwn you.
I wonder if it would make the coward-copter harder to use.
… Anyways, what worries me most is the comment about “unique” commands for the new Ultras- Akuma’s USEFUL Ultra is likely to have some ridiculous input command … or very low damage.
What exactly are you supposed to do as Akuma when the opponent gets a life lead and turtles effectively? As long as he doesn’t do anything really stupid it doesn’t seem like theres much you can do… and since Akuma has so little health, and there are plenty of characters who hit HARD, every single trade (or even the status quo) is a disaster for Akuma…
… And? And what? Punch you in the face?
well i think first off he meant “counterable” as in having a way to deal with it…
and a blocked lp srk OFFLINE isn’t too much of an issue to punish.
I don’t understand Versatile’s comment about a FADC taking 3 bars of meter. you mean you think it should take 3 bars instead of 2?
That would be stupid though because it makes it so you lose out on even MORE of the comboability and specialization of strings. Its bad enough that most characters don’t really have a real use for a FADC, but at 3 bars it means someone like ryu all of a sudden become one of the few ppl that there is a POINT to it. It would do the reverse of what I (think) you were saying.
As for akuma getting in… of course throws are necessary. And I think ono’s point of making them “harder to land” by maybe doing something with jump frames is that they realized how dramatic an affect on characters like gouken having jump frames as they are can be. I mean…first… WHO the hell jumps to get out of throws as their FIRST resort? How safe is jumping as a method of “teching” a throw when ryu can lp srk Ultra you because you jumped his throw during the grab frames? I wouldn’t worry about what ono is possibly saying about throws. I doubt ti will make a huge difference to akuma. The characters it WILL have a impact on are geif and able and others with command grabs… which i think is more of his point. He wants ppl to be more willing to get NEAR someone like geif so that the match isn’t just run run turtle poke run.
As for akuma… the only REAL difference I think doing something like lowering the frames for a jump would do is hurt akuma’s ability to land his demons off jumps and hurting his ability to land his super.
and @ loltima… i don’t think an “akuma D” is a good thing, even if some randomly weird kid talking about your crotch uses the term “big”… I think that would mean means its small and shriveled from all the evil chi steroids he uses.
I can’t imagine much of a change to akuma occuring besides maybe giving him a new special or normal move or two and whatever his new ultra is. As for “new unique commands” I fully expect a mix of “lp, hk, forward, hp, lk” type moves…down down PPP, and maybe something like “up, down, left, right” Ohh… and I fully expect SOMEONE to get a HCF or HCB ultra in some way. And just WATCH akuma’s new ultra being the down down press…lol.
That’s why you mix up regular jump-in tatsu to negate the dash and continue vortex. Or whiff palm and Demon, s.hk , or even teleport back to safety.
Are you playing online? If you are then that’s the problem. Offline, blocked SRK ( any strength ) means free combo. It’s really not that hard.
His SRK was like that in 3s as well IIRC. It’s just how Akumas SRK works. It balances it out. Really good when it hits - really bad when it doesn’t.
Then you MAKE them do something stupid. Chip them with hadou, footsie, demon flip mix-up. People make mistakes, unless you are playing a robot. Turtle doesn’t mean automatic loss for Akuma. He has so many tools. You must be doing something wrong, or not doing them well enough, no offense. But I will say that Capcom made it easier for people to turtle with absolute guard and crouch teching.
Hrm… guess I didn’t finish the sentence. I was saying throws back then actually made you worry because they hurt so much, came out instanty and couldn’t be teched. Now they’re weak, slow, and can be escaped pretty easily standing or crouching.
kkz ftw
Yeah, and it probably wears wooden sandals too, weird.
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Countering as in…being able to punish the move. What else would I mean by that? The only reason I said counterable instead of punishable is to go along with what I quoted from eventhubs in which they said “Capcom wants to give the rest of the cast more tools for countering Dragon Punch/Tiger Uppercut attacks.”
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Ryu’s light shoryuken is -17 on block. If you can’t punish that I don’t know what ot tell you. Ken’s is -16.
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I’m not saying Shoryuken into Ultra is the biggest crime in the history of Street Fighter. I am saying I believe something that is safe and does that much damage should take 3 bars insteadof 2 to do. This would force people to be a bit more strategic with their meter, and Ryu’s ultra wouldn;t be quite as dangerous(Sagat too).
- The FADC is obviously broken in that less than half the roster can really get a whole lot out of it. All I said is that I would like for it to take 3 bars to do. I did NOT say I don’t REALLY WANT THE ENTIRE ROSTER TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE IT…BECAUSE I REALLY DO. Sorry if it sounds stupid to you that I believe it should take a little more than 2 bars for a move that has historically been unsafe to become a huge damage dealer with very little risk. Maybe even 2.5 bars! I’m not a picky guy. I’m the kind of guy who’ll date a girl who’s a 6 out of 10 on the looks scale if she has a beautiful personality, ya know?
Something else I’d be fine with is perhaps if FADCing FORWARD took 3 bars while FADCing BACKWARD took 2. Add a little more recovery time to FADCing backward so that an ultra combo afterwards would be impossible. Now you can be safe at the cost of 2 bars, but to be safe AND be able to deal huge damage, you’ll need 3.
With 3 bars to FADC forward, maybe they could add some new stuff to SSF4 to make meter management even more strategic and deep. Perhaps if you have 1 bar of EX meter you can perform a 3S type parry. Multi parries would take multiple bars, but with full meter you can parry a combo until it’s competition at the cost of all your meter. Don’t attack me if these ideas sound blasphemous. I just really want everyone to be able to utilize the Focus system well. I think with that you get a lot more balance. What up Vega?
So a safe Gief Green hand would then take an entire super bar? No way. Two bars is taking enough IMO, I always miss those two bars after doing some crazy FADC combo.
You know reading that part again, I’m not really sure if you were serious or not. Fail on myself for not realizing this if that’s the case.
I was serious and I didn’t think of Zangief at all to be honest. They could make normal green hand better perhaps.
I guess I really am the only one who doesn’t think what I’m saying is shocking/ridiculous = )
Only changes that we need is another two alternate outfits. One with Akuma in a nice clean suit. The other being much like his first alternate outfit, but with ACTUAL butterflies.
I said OUTSIDE the context of Ryu’s little shenanigans.
As far as punishment goes, I was thinking of something along the lines of a combo, not just a sweep… are you guys really closing the distance after blocking an LP SRK and getting off your B&B before he can recover?
If you are, I can only assume this is taking place offline… :P?
Of course it’s offline… no one here should be bitching about any changes based on online difficulty… just saying.
j.srk online = hard to counter
j.srk offline = punishment combo value meal
you mean 50% more than 2 bars… not “a little”… But if you want the other characters to catch up with usefulness of the FADC then its generally a better option to move the other characters up higher rather than mess with the system in a way that makes it almost completely invalid. I think one issue is you are basing the idea on finding a way to hurt ryu/SRK, which is not a good way to make a balanced game. And Sagat would STILL be able to hit his Ultra anyway…
Its the unfortunate way things work in any game… some ppl will get a short stick and some will get something a little better. Knocking the FADC system to being near useless for combos just doesn’t make a lot of sense unless you are just wanting the game to be 4th strike. My point was if ANYTHING the only characters that would still have a POINT to using the FADC would be sagat and ryu…the very characters it sounds like you want de-buffed.
another issue is that it would make the supers more viable and meter building, while not able to be at the stupid lvl it was with SF3 or MvC2 and the likes, something that happens more often. I’d MUCH rather see more EX moves and FADC than to see matches have meter slowly built into a 1 second super. If that were the case then it might as well be WW.
A 3 bar FADC hurts everyone except the lower tier characters. It just seems counter-productive to take the game back a few years as opposed to trying to make it flashier and “more fun” to play (more fun is relative to the casual gamer… which HAS to be a large portion of the target demo. if they want to sell a game).
P.S - the only way I really see 3 bars being something that is “okay” to do is MAYBE if a second FADC after doing a first FADC only costs 1 bar (it would have to have some sort of time frame after one FADC where a second would only cost 1… but they would never probably do that due to the programming involved).
P.P.S - didn’t mean for the phrase “stupid” to be taken as YOU being stupid or the idea. Just a lack of caring to be more descriptive. So use a little less venom scorponok :tup:
As for the KKZ… I don’t know since story wise it shouldn’t be available… (his taunt?? maybe a weak form of it?) But it could be something similar… like an early version of it.
Also wondering if they will give him air fb ultra as a ground only move that requires a TK motion and PPP.
not trying to butt into the conversation too much but…
i actually have played people who are pretty much like robots. once they get on the defensive they avoid chip damage, they break every throw, and it truly is damn near impossible to do anything without putting yourself at risk.
japanese people are just too damned good at 2d games, lol.
You pretty much have to take risks in every match. It’s just a matter of taking the… how to say… less risky risks? I dunno. I haven’t had the pleasure of playing actual Japs from Japan. At least you get to play great players when you get your game on though! That’s one way to look at it…
Well he has the Demon Flip in vanilla SFIV - which if you’re going by story - he didn’t learn Demon Flip until 3S ( and KKZ for that matter )
perfect case in point from about 5 minutes ago:
i just played a ryu player that simply turtled the shit out of me. he knew what he was doing, knew how to get out of shit, hit every combo that he could hit-confirm, etc. one could say i simply got out-played but, seriously, gouki doesn’t have the tools to deal with that kind of shit.
in short: i can easily see the ryu match-up being a 6-4 in ryu’s favor. you really have to play your balls off of a good ryu, and that means taking the risky risks, where as ryu can just sit on hit ass and wait for you.
im a person who picks a char and sticks to it, but for fun i tried playing ryu in this game, and i can honestly say the character is made for pantsonheadretards, he is so insanely easy to play compared to gouki.
Its almost like they serve it all on a silver plate, im not going to list all the shit thats to easy or just retarded, but you probably know what im talking about already.
its no wonder why every scrub and their grandmother play the chars theu do coughryusagatboxercough
im not saying they are insanely overpowered, BUT it requires VERRY little to do VERRY well with those 3 characters, and its just bad gamedesign.