Air Dash Nerf. Lets talk about it

[xesaie]

to repeat myself, Vs is the essence of a casual friendly series. Dunno why you expect marvel 3 to be different.

[DevilJin_01]

Dude, people are complaining that there aren’t totally invincible GTFO! assists in the game now, as specifically compared to marvel 2.

Wesker/Wolverine were a clear balance/testing problem, I’ll grant you that.

Vanilla Haggar/Tron aren’t GTFO assists. They’re more like “dont even try” assists. They’re borderline broken assists in Vanilla the way they are now. Sure they’re 2 of the only ones but they are OVERLY GOOD…like better than MVC2 get offs. Even if you hit the person with the assist, as long they mashed assist first you have to be playing X-23, Wolverine or Wesker or someone else with a short c.L or you have to stop your combo. In MVC2…sure Captain Commando and Psylocke were pretty fucking good but they don’t come out even though you hit Magneto/Sentinel and they don’t provide these overly long hit confirms into easy death combos. They allow you to play like too much of an idiot.

A better balance would be just to bring back PSY/CC style assists but have them prorate hard if you can follow up or just knock people back on hit. Haggar/Tron was too extreme and too easy to use and dominated over pretty much all other assists due to such in a way that didn’t promote smart play.

They could have easily fixed the Tron/Haggar Vanilla problem by just making them go away if you hit the point character but since the game works the way it works…they had to do what they did I guess. At this point it’s pretty much up to the defensive characters to have strong enough defensive games to overcome the rush. We’ll see how that plays out.

[El_Maiz]

When people bring of “easy to learn” or “scrub friendly”, why do they always say that Noah was just mashing H with Hulk?

He pressed H when he thought they were going to press a button near him. Isn’t that what 80% of hulk players do?

Okay, the up TAC was pretty dumb, I’ll give you that. But if he was just “mashing”, how could he have beaten really good players?

[shoultzula]

to repeat myself, Vs is the essence of a casual friendly series. Dunno why you expect marvel 3 to be different.

oh you mean all thsoe casual friendly games where you died in 1 hit? yea those games are really casual friendly. xvsf\mvc2 were really friendly when you literally lost the game in 1-3 frames. clock still said 99 seconds but yea thats casual friendly to the max!

[Nooneyouknow]

All air dashes had a minimum amount of time before you could cancel the dash into a normal/block, for instance, C.Viper has a much less minimum air dash time than Magneto or Storm, which allows her to tri-jump and overhead from a normal jump. Amaterasu doesn’t have this minimum airdash time AT ALL.
Spiderman, Morrigan, and Amaterasu are really the only ones affected by this because of the nature of their dashes.

In most characters with an 8 way air dash, they were traditionally used for tri-jumping, which cut the dash short, same thing with the :db: air dashing.

TL;DR:
This is a nerf in name only, for most characters, its business as usual.

To clarify, Morrigan’s forward “ground” and air dashes allow blocking from the first frame of the dash, but her forward “ground” dash has 10 frames before it can be canceled into an attack. Her forward and parabolic up/down air dashes have no frame restrictions on blocking or attacking at all. Her backwards “ground” dash locks her out of everything for 25 frames, the longest of all helpless dashes in the game as far as I know. Her back air dash, I’m actually not sure about at all.

I really wonder how the game actually treats Morri’s “ground” dashes though. As long as it’s actually a ground dash, the vastly lowered minimum height on her air dashes is still a net buff, even if she can’t block during them anymore.

It just gives average players a lazy mentality. It’s not so much how good it is or how good it makes them…it’s how lazy it makes them. You can expect most of the people you play online to be a bunch of dive kick mashing, XF desperation activating scrubs. Which once they get used to how easy it is to win that way…they’re not going to care to learn any other way by watching vids or reading shit on SRK. Especially with lag on vanilla mvc3 online any way. Once people get used to something they get for nothing…they tend to stick with it and don’t see the value in expanding their knowledge with reactions and hit confirming more the way a competitive player does. It’s just incentive to get average players to play balls to the wall all the time and never do anything creative.

It just unnecessarily reduces the chances that you’ll fight someone who actually knows what they’re doing because these systems make them feel like they know what they’re doing. Plus Skullgirls will have completely better netcode with GGPO so when you play online you’ll be able to do what you want and have it react online around the same time it would offline. I’m just tired of playing games where the only way to practice is to go offline and find other like minded old heads that play offline. GGPO + a game that actually teaches you how to react like a strong player should help towards being able to practice high level play outside of having to run away from online play.

Personally, I hate training mode grinding. I don’t care if takes years to get good at a game, as long as it’s learned through actually playing the game. I’m perfectly fine with a game having nothing but “herp derp” combo and move execution because of this. Strategies and Set ups can be found in training mode sure, but they can’t truly be applied until you have a live opponent, and you can’t be sure whatever defense to those strategies and set ups you think you’ve found will work until it’s applied against a live opponent either.

[Sho_Nuff]

then why aren’t you playing sf4? why does every game need to be casual friendly? there are casual friendly games for you, play those. Versus series has been the defnite technical franchise for 15 years so why should casual players have a say to change it? I choose mvc2 over st\cvs2\3s because it took more technical skill. If I wanted to just be casual about it, 3s\st were much easier games to get into by comparison. I didn’t say well 3s sucks it should be more technical!! I simply choose another game that was more technical. There is a big fundamental difference here. Casual players demand w\e they like to be casual where as I picked the game based on the technicality.

and if your schedule is so dense you don’t have time to play, maybe you should find something else to do with your time.

I don’t enjoy SF4. I enjoyed Marvel 2, and I enjoy Marvel 3.

Seriously, your elitism is sickening.

“BAWWWWW I WANT MY GAME TO BE HARD SO THAT I CAN HAVE A BIG E-PEEN AND SAY I’M BETTER THAN THESE CASUALS BAWWWW”

People like you are exactly what gives the fighting game community a bad rep.

[DevilJin_01]

When people bring of “easy to learn” or “scrub friendly”, why do they always say that Noah was just mashing H with Hulk?

He pressed H when he thought they were going to press a button near him. Isn’t that what 80% of hulk players do?

Okay, the up TAC was pretty dumb, I’ll give you that. But if he was just “mashing”, how could he have beaten really good players?

Hulk mashing on H is only scrubby if people press attacks. If you don’t attack Hulk you just sit and wait for him to whiff something or do something unsafe on block then kill him. He had no real mix up game…he didn’t call assists, he always pressed on something that you could easily just XF guard cancel to get rid of Hulk and get the match going but of course the people he played against just didn’t do those things. Like if you sat there and just blocked Noah you most likely wouldn’t have gotten hit most of the 99 seconds.

The best person he beat was Royal Flush and that was mostly due to how Royal Flush dropped EVERY COMBO he attempted to land and had a team that didn’t provide any threatening assists for Thor. Thor without assists that legitimately help him lock people down is probably worse than armored Hsien Ko on point. A Thor that can’t lock Hulk down or finish combos is just going to get blown up by s.H Hulk.

[Sho_Nuff]

oh you mean all thsoe casual friendly games where you died in 1 hit? yea those games are really casual friendly. xvsf\mvc2 were really friendly when you literally lost the game in 1-3 frames. clock still said 99 seconds but yea thats casual friendly to the max!

So it’s ok for you to die in one hit in those games, but dying in one hit in Marvel 3 is scrubby.

Wow. Bad elitist is bad.

[Mr.X]

Every game is casual friendly. Just play other casuals.

[xesaie]

oh you mean all thsoe casual friendly games where you died in 1 hit? yea those games are really casual friendly. xvsf\mvc2 were really friendly when you literally lost the game in 1-3 frames. clock still said 99 seconds but yea thats casual friendly to the max!

Well heres the thing. If you list the features they’re all exceptionally casual-friendly, its just over a large amount of time people developed them into more complex things. As far as the base design goes they’re quite easy.

Basic combos are much easier to do than in games of the time, super inputs are simplified, bar management is simple, all these things are ‘casual friendly’, especially compared to 2000.

People took advantage of the extreme openness and simplicity of the system and pushed the limits to the point where they found (unintentional) advanced/hard things to do. Doesn’t mean the base game in of itself isn’t exceptionally easy and ‘scrub friendly’.

And sign me up amongst the people who just don't understand how removing safe airdashes made the game more friendly to casuals/scrubs/whatever.

[Deadpoolfanssj4]

to repeat myself, Vs is the essence of a casual friendly series. Dunno why you expect marvel 3 to be different.

Dude. No. Just no. You’re a cool dude but…No.

[DevilJin_01]

Personally, I hate training mode grinding. I don’t care if takes years to get good at a game, as long as it’s learned through actually playing the game. I’m perfectly fine with a game having nothing but “herp derp” combo and move execution because of this. Strategies and Set ups can be found in training mode sure, but they can’t truly be applied until you have a live opponent, and you can’t be sure whatever defense to those strategies and set ups you think you’ve found will work until it’s applied against a live opponent either.

Yeah…it’s not like Skullgirls is going to be totally based on combos that take years to learn to do either. Just like MVC3 it’ll have its easier and harder combos…I just doubt any of them will be as easy or do as much damage as Wolverine MVC3 shit and that’s good for fighting games in general. At least have them call an assist or dash up and OTG like Wesker first. LOL.

Skullgirls will be a lot focused on strategies as well and that’s the thing people really need in fighting games getting in. They need something that shows them how to apply the basic techniques we use in everyday matches that are basic but take some experience to get down. That way they can at least know how to use and apply them and then over time against real players put them into use. No comeback mechanics and 15 second hit confirms…just teach people what they’re supposed to be doing.

[Deadpoolfanssj4]

So it’s ok for you to die in one hit in those games, but dying in one hit in Marvel 3 is scrubby.

Wow. Bad elitist is bad.

jesus christ stop saying elitist. It’s like i’m watching fox news circa 2008

[NaokiB4U]

Ummm This does not affect Thor in the slightest he already cant block during his air dash. I know nothing of Ironman.

I had meant the slowness thing for the most part. Their flights are so slow in comparison to other characters that it seems stupid to nerf the speed even more.

[Viktorkain]

I had meant the slowness thing for the most part. Their flights are so slow in comparison to other characters that it seems stupid to nerf the speed even more.

Yea its only the :db: Option though not to big a deal unless youre magneto that is.

[Nooneyouknow]

THIS. Removing safe airdash is exactly the opposite to the “scrub-friendliness” that many games are being designed toward. Being forced to commit to things is a feature that fighting games designers seem to feel was a bug.

Oh, it seems like that now sure, but soon the cries of “OMFG WHY CAN CHARACTER X GET A FULL COMBO OFF AA JAB SAKJFHKJGFHSIFH!!!11!!!” will start. There were already some complaints about that shit, but it’s going to go up.

[Sho_Nuff]

jesus christ stop saying elitist. It’s like i’m watching fox news circa 2008

Jesus Christ, stop doing nothing but whining and complaining in every thread you pop up in. It’s like I’m watching a lost child looking for attention.

[mega_buster]

I kinda think ammy needed the air dash block so she can get in easy -_-

[xesaie]

you guys should just cut to the chase and get to the grudge-fuck.

[shoultzula]

I don’t enjoy SF4. I enjoyed Marvel 2, and I enjoy Marvel 3.

Seriously, your elitism is sickening.

“BAWWWWW I WANT MY GAME TO BE HARD SO THAT I CAN HAVE A BIG E-PEEN AND SAY I’M BETTER THAN THESE CASUALS BAWWWW”

People like you are exactly what gives the fighting game community a bad rep.

lol

who said being better about casuals? they don’t care about the game anyway because its casual so why should they care how difficult it is? even though you’re not racing in monoco in the f1 circuit, driving your beat up grocery getter like you stole it is can be fun too.

the funny thing is that in fighting games everyone starts out @ the bottom of the barrell. Hearing Justin’s story about being a scrub only to become god like is what its all about. If you can’t respect the time someone else put into doing something to get that good, then you don’t really deserve it. Its all about putting in the same amount of time. You think tiger woods got good because he was casual or micheal jordan got 6 rings because he was casual. Nah, those guys put in WORK. If you want to get good, why should you be any different?

I was a noobie once too but I saw how much work it took to be good. Acknolwedged it and got started. People these days want to be on the same playing field as 10 year old vets with virtually no effort which is achievable these days.

I want to be a better martial artist than bruce lee but I don’t want to train. Whats that, I can’t get good without practicing? man thats pretty elitist of you!! thats why martial arts people got bad rep you elitist prick!!!