Should change the name thread name to “Z Tier Warriors” after TKD’s tier list.
seriously???
POISEIDON TIDE!
Strike invuln on an SPD would be suuuuuuper herpderp and busted as fuck. Stop wishing for these things hahaha.
Gief, Hawk and Hakan all have strike invulnerability on their EX SPDs IIRC.
Oh ok EX SPD, not just the normal ones hahaha. I was seriously worrying about you guys lol. Turns out it was just me skipping a couple of letters. Silly me.
Well, this is kind of odd… what does EX SPD do? It doesnt do more dmg, doesnt knock down any longer (like giefs EX SPD), isnt strike inv. … what does it do??
Maybe Ultra throw will have those properties? i mean … it’s an ULTRA THROW … xD
Perhaps it has more range?
I haven’t heard what it is recently but last time his arcade states were posted his Hugo win/lose ratio was only 27% wins compared to his I think 76% on Ryu? (I could be off slightly on Ryu, it was over 70% for sure. Just going by memory)
I was playing some 3S Hugo yesterday, man his walk speed in 3S is so much faster than SFxT. It’s still shit but it’s faster. Also he is much smaller in size. SFxT/USF4 Hugo’s hand is like the size of Ryu’s torso almost while 3S it’s only a bit bigger than Ryu’s head. I still dunno why they added the random twitching Hugo does in SFxT/USF4 idle animation, he doesn’t do that in 3S. Only does the weird twitch after a jump or moving in general. Standing still he doesn’t act like he’s having seizures just sort of sways back and forth a bunch.
Didnt someone state earlier in this thread that his EX Ultra Throw has substantial range increase over the normal one (slightly better than Geif’s light SPD if i remember)
That wouldn’t bee too bad, it has not a superfast startup.
Yup, ex ultra throw has insane reach, after doing mp clap xx BB he has gained back 90% of the ex bar he used already.
The more i look at Hugo vs Guile, the more I think it won’t be quite as bad as matchups like Dhalsim, Sagat, and Juri. Here’s a couple things I was thinking about:
Guile’s LP Sonic Boom isn’t whiff punishable in most situations, but it doesn’t force Hugo’s hand nearly as bad as it does some other characters. Guile vs Bison, for example, Bison’s historically screwed in that matchup because he has no meterless way to get LP Sonic Boom offscreen except to Focus dash, which is generally very risky because even if unpunished, he has to commit to grey life (which he very well might lose if he Focused right into a trap). His only alternatives are to either go to the air or be invulnerable on the ground to go through it somehow, both of which are either expensive (EX Knee Press, also risky since the projectile invul doesn’t last long and LP Sonic Boom recovers FAST) or force Bison to lose a lot of ground (you can whiff Devil Reverse full screen and build a bit of meter, but the meter almost isn’t worth it because Guile has so much time to adjust his spacing unmolested, choking off MORE safe space and forcing Bison to take BIGGER risks.
I think Hugo doesn’t have this problem nearly so bad. At full screen, there’s no chance he’ll punish LP Boom even with psychic super, but Guile will take so long to chase it that Hugo can very safely clap to destroy the Sonic Boom without running much risk of punishment. (If he waits too long to destroy the fully recovered Boom, EX Sonic Boom might whiff punish, but that’s about it, I think.) This is mostly an option for full screen, but being able to avoid chip and build a bit of meter this way will help Hugo pull ahead when he gets to mid range.
The other good news for Hugo seems to be that at max Hugo c. MK range (and around Guile c. MK whiff punish range), it seems fairly consistent to trade a c. MK with an LP Sonic Boom on reaction to get a knockdown in exchange for a mild blast to the face. Not sure if the trade is favorable on LIFE for Hugo, but getting that knockdown seems worth the trade nonetheless. (I wonder if you could punish Guile Flash Kick FADC on block with U2/EX Backbreaker, or if the blockstun would be too long? Probably too much blockstun…)
Obviously Hugo has to play clean to avoid losing life getting clocked by Sonic Booms and fierce anti-air, but overall it seems like Guile controls less space vs Hugo than characters like Juri, Dhalsim, and Sagat. Hugo seems like he’s a lot less hard pressed to wildly guess to get through Guile’s zoning on the ground. I think it’ll still be Guile’s favor but it might not be worse than 4-6, possibly 5-5, but I wouldn’t go any more favorable than that. Guile is too solid.
Sounds like bs to me. He’s at 60% now with Hugo now but only 89 matches played.
Found it.
From the guy who runs the arcade ranking site.
http://kyosuke.kun.free.fr/Ranking/
Not “BS” just old data.
60% with hugo is pretty good.
Ben Reed, I think you might be underestimating the recovery of Guile’s sonicbooms. I’ve yet to play Hugo but I do play a fair bit as Gief vs the Guile matchup. If done at mid distance, Guile’s recovery after a sonicboom is so fast he can walk behind it and follow up with another far reaching normal like f+HP if he knows I’m going to focus. That results in me getting hit by a 2 hit combo (absorb 1 hit and become vulnerable, take second hit, loss of life from grey life+ damage of the normal.
Of course, Hugo’s clap eliminates the fireball entirely without generating grey life, but that does not stop Guile from walking up and punishing the recovery of the clap with a standing fierce.
Tripping Guile with cr.mk might be worth a try though. That move has MAD reach.
From the site…how many representatives of each character in the top 100 arcade BP in Ultra currently. Just for curiousity sake.
10 reps. Sagat (5, 14, 39, 46, 50,63, 88, 89, 90, 92)
7 reps. Rolento (4, 41, 68, 69, 70, 78, 96)
6 reps. Ryu (3, 29, 57, 94, 95, 97)
5 reps. Guile (27, 35, 37, 81, 84)
4 reps. Juri (7, 9, 26, 32), Chun Li (22, 48, 80, 91), Yang (16, 20, 77, 85)
3 reps. Rose (2, 55, 75), Claw (17, 65, 67), Blanka (36, 44, 100), Poison (33, 38, 98), Guy (23, 28, 83), Cody (21, 42, 45), Dictator (61, 64, 93),
Elena (11, 62, 79), Sakura (53, 60, 66)
2 reps. Ken (8, 56), Honda (15, 72), Ibuki (12, 73), Seth (25, 54), Gen (18, 24), Yun (6, 76), Abel (52, 86), Viper (10, 87), THawk (31, 40),
Boxer (49, 99), Rufus (19, 82), Gief (34, 71), E. Ryu (13, 58)
1 rep. Makoto (47), Duds (30), Oni (59), Sim (51), Adon (1), Fei (43), Elf (74)
No reps. Gouken, Akuma, Dan, Cammy, Hakan, DeeJay
This is interesting as well. Ranks the characters by average BP of “best Japanese”.
Funny thing, all his other characters have pretty much the same win rate now as in that screenshot. I guess he’s very inconsistent with Hugo or just had like three wins out of 11 matches back then.
It also hasn’t been updated since April 30th FYI. Just like the Hugo win% for Daigo it’s a bit out of date now.
Nah, having played Bison vs NuckleDu (and every other Guile in Tampa, ugh), I know all too well how fast that boom recovers. I don’t say lightly that a move might be worth using against a fully recovered LP Sonic Boom (see below).
I was mostly proposing clap to destroy Sonic Booms at full screen. If you use it at a range where Guile can either jump at you or walk up and fierce you before the clap recovers, yeah, it’s a bad decision. But if you jiggle around a bit, walk maybe a half step forward before retreating a bit to make Guile think a little bit about whether or not you plan to snap at him as he advances, and try and destroy the boom at the very back of the screen, at the last possible second. The idea here is that he doesn’t KNOW you just want to clap the fireball, and you definitely don’t want to do it every time. You want to make Guile think a bit about whether he’d be better off using those Booms to zone or to get in that ass, and while he’s thinking, you close a bit of space, whereupon hopefully Guile starts guessing a bit more riskily and getting hit for his trouble.
And LP clap I don’t think actually has that long a recovery, anyway. The whole point of clap is that it’s slow to start, but has a BUNCH of active frames and recoverys lightning-fast, allowing it to be plus on block. So as long as you don’t use it too close to Guile (like inside the range where jump HK would reach you without Guile walking forward after the Boom release first), I don’t think it’s super risky. (And if you’re that close, attempting a c. MK is probably a more profitable risk anyhow.)
The damage for failure (whiff punishment) I don’t think is too terrible, either. Stuff like counter hit fierce > fierce link hurts, but by destroying the Boom with a clap, all you’re gonna take is damage from the fierce. Sure beats the Focusing you’d have to risk with other characters, where you’d lose both the damage from the Boom you took off screen and the fierce you ate for your trouble.
That idea is actually proven to work, because I got it (and most of my other theories) from this match video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIhtfiA4aM
You’ll see this trade work about three times or so. Granted, this Guile’s not exactly Dieminion, but I think a lot of the basics of this matchup are pretty well apparent.
Stuff like clap is not so much to zone Guile as it is to make him change his intentions at least momentarily, from getting away from you (you don’t want that) to coming at you a bit to make sure you don’t build other resources by clapping or Focusing (which you might turn to your advantage, Guile has frame traps and LP Boom is plus on block point-blank, but at some point he’s gonna push himself to a range/situation where Hugo’s counter-pokes win, and if you read right and don’t get frame trapped, all of a sudden you have the initiative with a big scary guy who blows up down-back and jump back.
It’s still gonna be a tough match, just starting to look way less luck-dependent than stuff like Sagat/Juri/Dhalsim where the number of safe spaces on screen are EXTREMELY few and pretty much every action Hugo takes carries the risk of punishment.
He was told about the dd+mk and Hp and started winning. Kappa