[quote=“Alcheymyst, post:240, topic:163748”]
[/quote]Fairly free.
That match vs Yun made me giggle in class so fucking glorious.
Hugo can red focus dash through s.mk. 6-4 matchup because this is SF4.
I use rose’s far standing hk too go over it too…just like I use it to go over seismos. She becomes a stripper for a moment.
Yea I would say Hugo with meter is dumb. You get meter for just blocking, and sim just throwing out that normal is just stupid. Take the patience to block and then get meter. Stand lk cancel super or red focus. There is alot more to that matchup than meets the eye. People don’t think and just do the obvious shit and call it broken.
sim is going to be building meter twice as fast for each st.mk you block though.
That people want to revert his 2 hit MK buff is laughable. Dhalsim needs his 2 hit MK so he isn’t free to focus attacks. It is unfortunate how Hugo struggles against it, but Sim was terrible in 2012, no need to take away his best buff. Once you get in, he dies like always. In the corner he dies even faster, no free escapes, his teleport sucks in this situation.
He is supposed to function as a keepaway character who sucks up close. Cause of focus attacks and his incredibly low damage his keepaway wasn’t nearly good enough. Now he has more damage and a way to prevent easy peasy focus spamming attempts to get in.
Problem is, the 2 hits MK helps him against his best match up and doesn’t solve his bad ones.
UltraDavid talking about Hugo vs Sim
Like one of the previous guy said change his 2 hits to another move. Problem with s.mk is it’s got decent reach its fast and can be used as anti air and in hugos case he can’t crouch under it and his normals all seems to have gigantic hurt box to avoid it .
If the two hits is any other of his normals there’s ways to counter it.
S.hp/c.hp/s.mp/c.mp/s.lk
Just jump over to get in… Although s.lk might be just as insane since the recovery and speed of the move is nuts .
If it’s s.hk it’ll kinda suck but at least Hugo can probably go under it and the range isn’t as stupid
Imo c.hp is probably his best choice since it gives even more of a reason to use it over s.hp which already is better than c.hp most of the time with a few exceptions
Sad that the first and only thing the masses can think of is “Nerf Sim again” instead of the much better “buff Hugo”.
It wouldn’t probably be enough against Sim, but it would be good for Hugo regardless if his regular Monster Lariat had 1 hit armor and the EX one had two-hit armor.
I think it’s far too early to call for nerffing Sim’s buff. However buffing Hugo is not going to fix this unless they give him something like a low profile option or a truly invincible move that can hit it rather than just an armored move.
FYI his EX Lariat HAS 2 hits of armor. The problem is that Sim’s sMK when at max or near max range will recover well before EX Lariat gets close. If you watch that match it’s actually one of the things that the Hugo player tried but then Dhalsim recovered in time to block it and punished it and started it all over. It might have even been slow enough for Dhalsim to simply poke him again before he would have had to block it but that would have been risky.
The range that Sim’s sMK is hitting crouching Hugo is more than twice the distance of any other 2 hit normal in the game. In addition Sim’s sMK is only 9F startup and only -3F on block (it actually is probably -2F on block in USF4 since it hits twice now). Most 2 hit normals are far slower than that and/or have limited ranges where they can get both hits. Dhalsim seems to get both hits regardless of distance.
Even vs crouching opponents (like Ryu) Dhalsim’s sMK will hit from as far or farther than the farthest 2 hit normals. It’s hands down the best 2 hit normal in the game in terms of speed / range / safety.
sHK would be completely useless as a 2hit normal. You literally have to stand right next to the opponent for it to hit grounded. You might as well do B+HP in that case.
sMK is fine it just MIGHT need tweaks. I think making it so that you get 1hit at max range and then around where Dhalsim’s knee (or closer) is you get 2 hits. Maybe even make it so that the hitbox around Dhalsim’s knee is slightly larger so that it’s harder to crouch under for characters like Chun. That still makes it the farthest reaching, fastest startup 2 hit normal and makes it useful vs Focus attacks.
TBH though a 2hit normal just fixes one issue with a couple of bad matchups but those matchups will still be awful due to things like buffered normals into full screen specials (Makoto sMP - EX Hayate or Yun crMP - Lunge or Ibuki - crMP - EX Neck Breaker) plus you still have the issue of jump arc altering and such. What it really does is fix a couple of instances of characters focus dashing in and then makes a bunch of his matchups where the opponent likely already struggles vs Sim or at best is about even into matchups that Dhalsim has a distinct advantage or dominates.
At best it makes him even more polarizing by not fixing his awful matchups but giving him more really good matchups.
Like i said, s.MK seems kinda nuts against Hugo.
I think the easiest fix for this is make Hugo’s crouch work like any other characters… maybe only SLIGHTLY bigger instead of massively taller.
Look at how Cody’s f+HK whiff against Hugo, do something like that… make it look like it goes through his head/hair
s. HK was probably the worst suggestion out of the list… honestly i think c.HP makes the most sense as well. Heck dhalsim player might be even happier with changing it to c.HP, it’s got way more range does more damage and lower profile. The point of two hitting move for Dhalsim normal is to beat focus and anything relating to that… .it’s not really used as an anti air. Unfortunately right now s.MK is anti air, anti ground, even anti crouch against Hugo.
im sure he’d tell you himself but the reason cody’s f+hk misses hugo or bison during his slide is because it’s programmed or coded to specifically not hit characters while crouching.
Im going to assume that hugo has a low profile hitbox like dan does when hes stunned. I have this problem where adons focus attacks will just whiff on certain characters who are low to the ground.
Day 1 Ultra test. Stunned a Hugo about 12 times (he said he hasn’t played for about a year). Whiffed my follow up after stun like 5 times.
Bastard.
Even Bonchan missed his setup, and then just mashed a dp lol.
Awesome Hugo got top tier hurtbox when he’s stunned.
It could be that he is getting up on his knees sooner than other characters get up (visually) from a stun which is causing it to miss early on as characters are invincible during their rising animation part of a stun.
Go into training mode, stun an opponent, then immediately start charging a level 3 focus attack. It will end up whiffing even though it looks like it should hit. This is because the opponent is still invincible at that point during their “get up” animation.
Based on what I’ve heard, it seems there’s some kind of hurtbox problem with his stun animation. Didn’t Dudley use to have something similar where he could only be (command) grabbed from behind and not from the front when he was stunned?
Ah I can actually explain exactly what happened in that (did some quick research)
First off, AFAIK it only occured with Hakan. Specifically: Dry Hakan.
The problem had to do with the fact that Dudley leans over during his stun animation combined with Hakan’s SPD mechanics. Hakan’s dry SPD has very very short range, and even when oiled a lot of the range on the attack comes from Hakan doing a quick forward movement on startup rather than because of the size of the hitbox. (Despite the fact Oiled Hakan’s SPD has more range than even Zangief’s LP SPD, the hitbox itself is only about half the size of Zangief’s)
Because of Dudley leaning forward, his head pushbox got in the way of Hakan’s forward lunge during the startup of his SPD. Since Dry Hakan’s SPD hitbox is situated INCREDIBLY close to his body it resulted in the throw whiffing because Dudley leaning over pushed Hakan out of range of the actual hitbox for Dry Hakan’s SPD.
In AE all they did was make Dudley’s pushbox turned off on his head area (and made it specified to only be on waist/chest/stomach)
It had nothing to do with invincibility frames or Dudley’s hurtbox during stun. If anything, the biggest problem was Hakan’s SPD hitbox while dry being so bad (something being fixed in USF4)
To be clear though, I wouldn’t put it remotely past Capcom to screw something up regarding Hugo’s stun. Even core system mechanics like that they fuck up, look at the invincibility frames for Gen/Yang on wakeup that they fucked up. I’m just offering a possible alternate explanation as to why things are whiffing vs Hugo on his stun animation. Because it seems you CAN hit him, and I’ve only seen things whiff when done early in his stun animation. That is why I suspect it could just be a quirk where it his animation is misleading compared to other characters animation for their get up frames when stunned.