The best part about straw man arguments is that YOU get to decide why people feel the way they feel. That must help. I’ll quote it again:
Yuck. Go read the forum rules about straw man arguments.
It’s weird that “these people” and my friends are on the same page, minus them being sore losers (“people not wanting to lose” in your words) or scapegoaters.
You know (or should know if you’re paying attention) that I have about zero feelings upon this game. (I’m laid back, I’ll make up my mind next year.) I’m just relaying that of the crowd of people I was with Saturday night, all of whom go to Evo, most of whom usually finish very high, most think this game has some significant flaws, most of which have been expressed here by people whom you evidently have little to no respect for. You can’t label people with 90% win rates as “sore losers” very effectively.
I find apologism in general disappointing, I find it utterly tasteless when it’s coupled with “oh but your opinions don’t count because you just don’t like losing ‘that way’”.
When I suggest that this game has some baffling design decisions, don’t make it seem like I said something radical and totally unfounded. The game has some baffling design decisions. Whether or not they make sense (or are fun) in four months remains to be seen.
edit: I fixed a typo and saw Nick’s post: I totally utterly agree. That’s why I’m not sweating MvC3. It’s the rebirth of Marvel! It doesn’t need to be awesome by itself, it’s awesome because it gets the ball rolling again after we’d “suffered” through ten years of dying Dreamcasts and a last gasp port that worked. That’s why I love MvC3. :tup: x100000
edit edit: But I really hope Capcom’s dev team pays attention to the next two years, because the new engine may be amazing and MvC4 could be stellar with a little work.
We’re kind of back at SF4 when it came out. I think a lot of these feelings will flesh out and there will be a general acceptance to how this game is designed. People want MVC3 to be MVC2 with 3d too badly. It’s just apples and oranges now.
I don’t need to posit another person’s feelings, I can copy/paste quotes supporting my observation. Your buddies may not feel this way, but hell - my buddies don’t feel that way either, it doesn’t change the overall message on these boards.
Fortunately I haven’t. But I find it telling that you mention who I have no respect for, in a post where the strawman fallacy is premise one.
If you read my posts you’d know this point is ridiculous aimed at me. If anything I lobby hard against the idea that somebody’s opinion should be stuffed for reasons unrelated to the point. Hell, just a few days ago I got crap for opting out of integrating Bold Canceling into my Dante play. This alone discredited me in the eyes of a few posters; whether I was happy with my Dante was irrelevant to them. So I’m not the sort of guy who stuffs anybody’s opinions, especially directly at talented players. This is a strange accusation.
I wouldn’t know if this was a response to me if not for the sarcasm (touche, btw), but as you said yourself you don’t have a dog in the race and you’re laid back - so when did I ever label posts as radical or unfounded when you never made them? I don’t recall saying anybody’s opinion was radical/unfounded concerning game design in general.
Preppy, you cite that top players harbor similar complaints against the game as many on this board, but most of the “flaws” I see raised are “Sent is broke”, and “X-factor is too strong.” In the early going, we see that Marvel 3 is very competitive, and most characters are viable in their own way. Plenty of anti-Sent strategies have arisen already.
The question to be answered is: are these complaints legitimate concerns with the design of the game, or just preference? All I ever see is “should.” Says who? Damage should be scaled back because you just feel that you shouldn’t die in two BnBs? X-factor should be limited because you think one character shouldn’t be a threat? The line between whining/dick-swinging (“because I’ve played Marvel 2 for years, I know my shit!”) and actual suggestions that will create a more enjoyable fighter for the majority is a fine one.
@MGIII: I thought fanatiq’s thread was about the first excellent thread I’ve seen upon the subject. The actual suggestion “with A1 dead, A1 should call A2 like it used to”, for example, is a most excellent one. Hopefully the discussion continues evolving: you’ve got a lot of smart people playing the game these days.
I don’t personally know anyone who thinks their skill at MvC2 should have carried over. It has for the most part, but I think that’s generally irrelevant.
@Triad: Naw, you’re wrong. I was making a generally true statement as opposed to saying “you” thought that. Hence the word “can’t”. The point (whoosh) was to delineate this magic group of people from the aforementioned “people not wanting to lose to someone ‘who doesn’t pay a training mode tax’”.
As I said in my edit, I think Nick is spot on: MvC3 is amazing and opens the door for the Vs series again. I’d really like that to continue. I don’t know what people will think of the game in six months: I’m really interested to see where it heads.
MVC3 a true sequel?? mmm…I would say no,a reboot? totally. Its refreshing 2 see some of our favorite game characters getting a touch up.And for a note for future posters;don’t look for high level Marvel 2 in Marvel 3 because you will be disappointed,since this is a whole new ball game.
After 10 years? Absolutely. It took a decade to get this, which shows how high up the totem pole it was. If it makes them money, then it was worthy to them and those who bought it. The way the competitive scene views it isn’t too big a deal for them, at least compared to how the vast majority feels about that awesome XF comeback they staged with that Marvel character with a summer blockbuster about to open. If this outsells SF4 like they hope, then that is all the worth it needs.
Making something accessible to more people is not a complaint in most industries… more like a goal.
He so mad
As mentioned,
“This game lets people win who aren’t LEGIT, son. I CAN’T HANDLE IT.”
Whatever sense of elitism regarding MVC2 comes into play when talking if “MVC3” lived up to anything. I’m also hardly convinced MVC2 had a “decade” worth of anything. There was no ten year wait for MVC3, *we were entirely lucky at all to get it. **
*
"It’s not a sequel"
No, that’s why they put a “3” after the “2”…oh…wait.
Again, as far as I’m convinced, MVC2 didn’t have a shelf life any more than Third Strike did. Weak console ports and a dying arcade market crippled its potential base more so than its mechanics or “depth”. I’d argue it took till 2009 for MVC2 to “hit the masses” and I’d say judging by its download performance and activity it certainly didn’t spark a revolution either.
I’m quite satisfied with MVC3 so far. The VS series in general to me had a greater merit beyond how many people I could school with notation jargon or infinites, but maybe that is all MVC2 was to some people.
As long as they make decent updates and don’t try to force more “SUPER TURBO” editions on me, I’m fine with giving MVC3 another year of my life, which is more than I can say for MVC2 ten years ago in a funsville arcade.
Getting rid of X-Factor to ms is pointless. It really does serve its purpose as a HEAVEN OR HELL mechanism, I do fully agree with it being adjusted, somehow.
If you’re replying to me in relation to x-factor, I don’t think it can be on player/ranked. Other poster I understand, but either way I don’t think the game allows adjustments outside of versus matchups (same with time, a complaint of mine in the patch thread)
Could be wrong though
Why do you feel that it is a good thing that such a mechanism exists? SSF4 ultras aren’t HALF as stupid as lvl 3 X-factor, not even close.
Even with lvl 1 X-factor, any combo is basically a guaranteed character down. The damage in this game is already too damn high, bnb’s doing 70% damage and EASILY KO’ing caught assists, then you add a mechanic in that allows you to cancel hypers into longer combos WHILST MULTIPLYING any further damage?
I don’t give a fuck which way you look at it, X-factor has no place in MVC3. It’s completely out of place, noone asked for it, and nobody wants it.
Believe me, even the scrubs think it’s retarded. You made a comeback with 1 character? No, you didn’t. You hit me a couple of times but because X-factor is in the game you just happened to win. The game let you win. It’s not a fucking comeback if you lvl 3 X-factor my whole team with half a bnb on each character. If you didn’t have X-factor no fucking way in hell would you have won that.
I recognise that Capcom wanted something that seperates MVC3 from MVC2. That’s a noble endeavor. And I like being able to cancel hypers I guess, it makes the combo system a little more fun. So just add a cancel system that you can only use once per match, costs 2 meters (earn the cancel instead of just turning any combo into death) and has NO OTHER EFFECTS, and get fucking rid of X-factor.
It’s a decent sequel, save for two things. Xfactor should not be in the game. Maybe as Mowr said, there could be a two bar cancel, like a FADC in SSFIV. The potential for comebacks is far too high, especially with characters like Sentinel, whose Lvl3Xfactor rocket punch chip does almost a fourth of someone’s life.
Second, the combos need to end. When you get hit by a combo, that’s all well and good, if the other player has the execution, you should eat 30%+ in life. But playing against a Tron or an Amaterasu is just stupid. Getting juggled for a good 20 seconds of gameplay really detracts from the fun.