Thats because a low tier player doesn’t give theirself very many options. They don’t know how to deal with mixups and resort to panic much faster and much more often the mid level and higher level players. They don’t know any other option than SRK or wakeup ultra. Yeah you’re trying your mixup out but all they know is that you’re trying to hit them on wake up (even if you’re not). A pro will think:
backdash? reversal? ultra? block? jump back quick attack? instant something? throw tech? walk back?
Since they give themselves so many options its easier to punish a wide variety of things they can do. For instance, meaty oroshi punishes the following on opponents wake up:
non invincible reversals, non invincible ultras, blocking low, crouch teching, attacking, throwing, mashing, jumping, walking forward, whatever whatever whatever
but a new player doesn’t think about all of that stuff. All they think is SRK. and you know what beats ALL of Makoto’s offensive options on an opponents wakeup (besides a frame perfect 3f safe jump)?
SRK
so it might look like they read you . And it might look like you keep falling for the same trick. When in actuality that is their only option. That’s all they give themselves. So bait and punish.
Low level play is just that. Bait and punish. They are going to attack relentlessly. Work on the defensive part of the game. Throw the tricks and shit out of the window. Throw 90% of the AEMAKOTO GUIDE out of the window. Stop watching all of those videos, and just get online and hold back until they fuck up. Works every time. just sit there. Get a life lead and watch them kill themself. work on getting in without taking damage. Know that every time you attack you could eat SRK. Be cautious. work on creeping your way in. That is how you win at the low levels. Not on offense. primarily defense. That is all. If you are at a low level and you quit using makoto, it is for one reason only:
You don’t know how to defend yourself.
Learn how to defend yourself properly, and you will not lose any low level matches. Its that simple.
as some wiseman said: “you dont need mixups if THEY dont know whats going on”. When you get to play vs good players, thats when Makoto turns really fun
Fuerte can get hella stun fast if hes used properly…his mix up is 50/50 and when you do RSF it can lead to pain and suffering for hitting a button…i still use him and i get stun alot actually. it makes sense for her low dmg normals to be that way seeming as though her barrage of attacks lead to stun lol
Too bad. I hate seeing someone leave our ranks, but as Mossad said, as good as she is, she’s not for everyone. From my experience, “playing random” in Makoto’s case doesn’t always mean throwing out different types of attacks, it also means mixing in back dashes, safe jumps or just sitting there and doing nothing. A lot of people forget that last one, but it’s really important since it breaks up the rhythm of your offense and thus, keeps your opponent guessing.
IMO, when playing Makoto at a beginner/intermediate level, I feel it’s less important for a player to focus on the science, (ie understanding frame data, being able to execute kara-karakusa, 1 frame linking, ect). Instead, he/she should be developing the artistic side of Street Fighter (developing a style that manipulates your opponent into making them do what you want them do, when you want them to do it). The ideal end result is someone like V-Ryu who marries the two aspects. He has great knowledge, but most people are never quite sure when he’s going to go explosive or when he’s just going to take his time and chill out.
But I understand your frustration. Soldiering through the losses might be the hardest part of learning Makoto. Best of luck to you.
I just wanted to say thank you for all the amazing information you guys have put together. Seriously, the mak forums are by far the best on shoryuken!!! Every time I reread a thread I learn something new. Nothing to really ask at this time, just wanted to say thanks. And I really hope to see V-Ryu at some tournaments in the future. We need more top notch (tournament level) makoto players out there besides Haitani, Shiro, and Strider (sorry if I missed anyone).
Okay, this is a Q & A thread so I need to ask a question too: is it okay that I didn’t ask a question???
Yes I know, I read the threads!!! I would not want to upset the mossad man…
Okay so now I have a serious question about execution. I have spent a lot of time with makoto in training mode. I have cleared all trials except the last one. I can hit a lot of her combos consistently in training mode (still struggle with 1 frame links). I try to do combos 10 times in a row before practicing something else.
HOWEVER, my in-game execution (both online and offline) is still very spotty. What is the best advice you guys have for improving in-game execution? Play more matches and spend less time in training mode? Any tips, strategies, or suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks!
Um honestly IMO, the best way to get the execution down is to try over and over to do the same combo on the computer on Hardest. See… the computer won’t let you lol. It won’t give you the exact amount of experince you need to do it 100%, but it’ll get you to about 75%. Just keep trying to do the same combo. The computer can be unpredictable, will SRK, Instant ultra, SPD, or whatever else it can to stop you. You need to be able to have your combo come out without thinking about it. And since you never know when your jump HP is not going to get SRK by the computer, you’ll be surprised everytime this happens.
Or try it with the computer to stand there and random block. Only do the full combo when something hits.
It sounds like you’re starting to get to the point where you need to practice against real people. Mossad’s advice is real good, but eventually, you just need to grind out games so you can get used to the adrenaline. In training mode, your mind/body will stay calm because there’s absolutely nothing at stake, but in a match (even if it is online) you’re playing for something (points, pride, ect). Even if you can execute 1 frame links/combos/set-ups almost perfectly in the lab, you’ll still probably fuck up in a real match because you haven’t practiced while your heart was pounding. Furthermore, the mind will resort to the tactics it knows best in times of stress, so playing against a human is the optimal way to test how much of that tech you’ve practiced has actually been committed to muscle memory.
tried what mossad man said and play defensively/bait and punish with makoto when you starting out and i won a couple matches and had a few close ones. if i didn’t listen or read that i woulda been trying combos that i cannot connect at this level lol. also you guys were right…staying still mindfucks the shit outta ppl o_O
about makoto fuki…i know LP fuki is godlike but what about the others? i don’t know when/where to use em
also i played an ibuki today who did nothing but jump in roundhouse into a target combo (it does like 2 roundhouses if you know what im talking about) then he’d superjump and try to do it again. beginner stuff. i end up losing cause i tried to do EX karakusa but it wiffed/wouldn’t come out and i get counter hit.
idk what i did wrong but i think it was just a matter of execution. anyone think otherwise?
I think it depends on when the Ibuki SJC’s the TC. I’ve had that same shit done on me, what you can do to counter it seems to vary. I’m not positive, but I think you always have enough time to c.MK.
A little piece of knowledge on the guy match-up. if your fighting a guy that’s throwing out shoulder constantly/ u predict a shoulder you can karakusa it. I’m at work so I can’t delve into it but if he were to ever include it when your blocking his pressure I’m sure you could react kusa it.
trying it out right now. cr mk don’t wont on that TC into SJC but if they come in trying the same mess after you get hit u can EX oroshi them when u land. that seems to be the only option if ur ever in that situation. don’t mind me im new so someone more experienced should test it/explain it lol
I would not want to upset the mossad man…