I use light version when I challenge an air to air with tsurugi. Medium during block strings or applying pressure so you can follow up if they get hit. Hard version I use for punishing and hoping over fireballs.
Basically what Blacksonic21 said is my opinion. I use light for air to air or to try and bait an SRK since LK Tsurugi causes you to drop down at a sharper angle than MK. MK for combos, overhead pressure, and just as my general “go-to” when I’m feeling out the opponent still. HK for punishes or if I really think I can get the knockdown on it (Like if the opponent has been pretty lax on their anti-air game or doing a lot of Down back.)
That option select where you land HP hayate and do st.mp ~ forward dash
If the opponent jumps, you just react DP and if they dash, you just karakusa? Don’t have to input those during the dash or anything?
I don’t think that’s a good OS. HP Hayate = +2 on hit. s.MP = 18 frames, Dash = 16 frames. So the dash would finish, with perfect timing on the s.MP and the dash, 32 frames after the HP Hayate, and even the worst backdash will be able to punish the forward dash from Makoto. If they jump, you’ll tag them with s.MP.
I wish that Makoto’s dash was a TINY bit faster so you could do EX-Hayate - FADC - Fukiage that way she had a way to use EX-Hayate - Fukiage outside of the corner. 
What might make tanden Renki better and actually usable outside of tiny situations? I think it should make all of your specials have armor break since you lose out on the armor break from EX Hayate, and your Oroshi has no invincibility at all during Renki. What would you want it to do without really losing the flavor of being a power buff instead of speed buff like Genei Jin or FSE or Enbu?
EX-Hayate, FADC, Fukiage does work on some characters. I’ve only tried it on Oni so I know it works on him. Maybe someone knows all the characters it can be done too. I’m too lazy to test it myself.
A list was being made, I forget where it is/gone though. Oni is one of the characters it works on, like Blacksonic said. I think there was some that needed different Fukiages in order to catch them though.
I apologize in advance if this is maybe a Newbie board question, but it seemed like Makoto-specific so I thought I’d try here first…
I’ve recently (in the last month or two) gotten back into fighting games after a very long hiatus; the only other fighting game I really put forth effort in was MK3 (so 1995), though I’ve played fighting games casually pretty much my whole gaming career. After this year’s EVO and seeing how much fun SF4/MK9 looked (especially after watching Gootecks & Mike Ross go at it), I’m trying to learn to actually be good at these games, as opposed to the total scrub I used to be when I was a kid. The last game in the SF franchise I played was SFII, any other exposure I had to the characters was from MvC (or maybe anime/manga, or M.U.G.E.N).
Anyway…
For some reason, I was instantly drawn to Makoto the first time I randomly picked her out of the lineup. The problem is, as far as I can tell, I am totally and completely awful with her, to an embarrassing degree. I can recite all dialog verbatim from the newbie tutorial videos linked around here, I’ve studied all the stickied Makoto info here like it contains the meaning of life, and I’ve been training executions, FADCs, cancels, links, cross-ups, mixups, B&B’s for a minimum of 3 hours every day these past two months (which is crazy exhausting when you work an average of 10 hours a day). In training mode, I can (and do, daily) perform any of her moves 100 times in a row, and I’ve been able to get all but about 6 of the challenges completed first try. And yet, I’ve won a ranked match once. Yes, literally, once. It feels like no matter how clean I am when training, my execution is completely shot and I can’t link or cancel a single move once I go up against another player. I fuki when I mean to hayate (and hayate when I mean to fuki), I can’t kara to save my life, and I’m lucky if a kick comes out let alone a tsurugi when I’m jumping. I keep dashing the moment before I’m trying to use FA armor to get in on a fireball spammer. It’s not because I’m online, the same thing happens locally or against the cpu.
I realize in the grand scheme of things 2 months is nothing and I should expect to get bodied more often than win for a while yet, but one win!? Should I really expect to be this terrible? Shouldn’t I have *accidentally *won more than that? More frustrating still is the fact that this only happens to me when I’m playing Makoto; My first match with Guy, Sakura, Cammy, and Juri have been more successful than any match I’ve ever had with Makoto thus far. My performance doesn’t go out the window with them by even a fraction of the amount it does when I play Makoto either, which serves to frustrate me even further since none of the other characters in the game give me any amount of joy when I play them.
Am I the only person this has happened to on here? Is this just a sign that SSF4:AE isn’t for me? Is there some regiment I can go through to maybe combat this, or do I just have to spend the rest of my life with high sodium levels at my own terrible performance?
Thanks in advance (and sorry for the long post, had to get the venom out).
Characters it works on
Zangief - MP and EX
Dhalsim - EX
E. Honda - EX
Dudley - MP and EX
Seth - MP and EX
Gouken - MP and EX
Akuma - MP (didn’t see this coming given I couldn’t get it to work on Ryu / Ken. Someone else try to get Ryu/Ken to work maybe my timing is just bad.)
Gen - Mp and EX
Dan - MP and EX
Sakura - MP and EX
Oni - MP and EX
Yun - MP and EX
Juri - EX
Chun-Li - EX
Abel - EX
C. Viper - MP and EX
M. Bison - MP and EX
Sagat - MP and EX
Dee Jay - MP and EX
Cody - EX
Hakan - MP and EX
Yang - MP and EX
Guile - MP and EX
Balrog - MP and EX
Vega - MP and EX
Fei - EX
T Hawk - MP and EX
Adon - EX
Doesn’t work on
Ryu
Ken
Ibuki
Makoto
Cammy
Guy (was really expecting this one to work because of how floaty his jump is, but when knocked back by EX Hayate he flies really low.)
E. Ryu
Rufus (Someone double check this, I honestly can’t believe that it works on Juri but not this fat bastard lol.)
El Fuerte
Rose
I was surprised to find how many chars it DID work on. I assumed it didn’t work since A. I never hear about it. and B. It didn’t work when I tried it on Ryu and Rufus before someone said it was char specific/type specific. Also I couldn’t find a single char that HP or LP worked on. Most of the characters that it works on I can’t see integrating the move into my play. However vs Seth, Yun, and Yang I could actually see being able to do EX Hayate - FADC - Fukiage in mid stage instead of a corner could not only be usable, but actually kind of helpful given those 3 have low health.
Btw I didn’t search for the list, I just made a new one. Hope it ends up helping someone.
Try posting a video of you playing. I´d be interested to see where exactly your problems are. Maybe it can be helped.
The execution you described during a real match is very strange. While it takes many, many, many matches to feel comfortable and to have so much experience that you can auto-pilot certain things and concentrate on the mind-games and things that go wrong with the auto-pilot, you should be at a level where random Ranked scrubs should lose, due to your training. Could you describe in detail what you train in training mode? The only things I can think of during a real match are nerves and anger.
Also, much of what we wrote in the OPs isn’t aimed at people like you. No, that’s not to say it’s too much for you, or you can’t do it. That is to say* it isn’t applicable* against your opponents right now. Your opponents right now generally won’t let you meaty them (SRK!), won’t let you do block strings (they will press buttons), won’t let you buffer poke (jump, jump, leeeet those scrubs jump! These are the scrubs who will jump a loooot! C’mooon! I’m talkin’ to you, c’mooon!), and you just plain don’t need or want our tactics. These guys will mess it up. They’re not gonna play smart. It’s like playing poker with a bunch of newbies who don’t know the value of their hands … try to bluff them and play mind games and YOU are at a disadvantage, because you’re working with law in a land of chaos.
As in poker, there’s one thing to do: wait for the nuts. If you get the advantage in numbers/knowledge, why should you try to play THEIR game? Those guys will do preemptive jumping attacks half the time they jump, for God’s sake! You have to slow play it until the win is handed to you. And, oh yes, online, it will be handed to you in the form of predictable jumps to Fukiage for 328 damage, in the form of wake-up SRKs you can punish with U1, in the form of poor habits in general which you can exploit, whether it’s mashing c.HK whenever you’re in range or poorly spacing fireballs, and much more.
Care to get any videos with inputs on? Maybe there will be execution flaws I can see, like doing 236 too close after a dash so it turns into a Fukiage.
start here
If that’s too beginner for you, send me a PM and I’ll help you get started with more specifics. I’m not a high level player, but I feel I am really good at teaching the foundational elements you’re going to need to be successful with her. After you get up to speed, you’ll know what to look for on the front page of the Q&A.
Ikaruwa if you’re on XBL we could have some matches and I can see what you’re doing wrong. If you’re not just post up some matches and we’ll be more then happy to critique them for you. But it’s probably just like Robot Makoto said, you’re trying to play too smart against idiots. You know those types that only know how to jump in roundhouse into sweep, and mash through blockstrings. Just bait and punish these players.
Ya and if your on Psn hit me up. Kaiten7, i kinda have my head around the game lol maybe I can help ya too
Questions regarding Hayate Cancels with Karakusa. Sorry if its been asked before.
Ok, so I’m trying out stuff like this:
Karakusa + HP + Hayate Cancel + Karakusa
With mixed success.
Question basically is, are there particualr buttons you need to press for the H.Cancel? Like, do I need to make it a HP/HK cancel or a LP/LK cancel?
Also, is it good to use HP after the Karakusa or should MP be used? (HP seems to push further)
Had a couple of good games with this technique, but it isn’t consistent yet. People seem to walk back out of my second Karakusa sometimes…
Thanks everyone for offering to help.
I’d previously read your thread, Nuts, and it has helped me in that it’s made me refocus my goals quite a bit during a match. I used to aim for getting in and block stunning so I could kara them into a combo. It always proved too reckless when I tried it, but I didn’t really know what else to do. So thank you for helping put me on the right track with that. From watching my own replays I notice that very often, when I knock down, I completely blank about what I ought to do next, even though I do practice it a bit in training mode (with something like FA2, dash, c.LP, s.MP xx EX Hayate/Orochi).
I’d really appreciate that, BlackSonic. I’m Ikaruwa on XBL also. I’m running out momentarily to pick up groceries and get some dinner, but maybe later on? I don’t have anything going on this Labor Day weekend, and I’m an hour ahead of you (EDT, Cleveland).
I’d be able to record some using my cell phone, if you’re not adverse to the lack of quality. I’m looking into getting some capture hardware for my consoles (I want to try doing my own LP’s) though I haven’t had the funds to do so yet. I spent the morning going through some past matches, and have a few from both online ranked and playing against a friend of mine who I regularly Endless against for additional training (I know his tactics by now, but I still beat him maybe 1 in 6, even though the only time he ever plays is against me).
EDIT: Here are two videos of my friend and I, and one of me in a ranked match.
After watching my most recent matches over with a fresh mind, It seems apparent that I still have a lot of bad habits that come out once I crack, and I crack easily from the frustration. When I upload some replays I’m sure all of you will immediately see what I’m talking about (hint: every other fighting game I’ve ever played I always play pixies who I can rushdown with easily). As for the training…
[LIST]
[]I usually warm-up by just working my way down her list of supers -
[LIST]
[]50 - 100 linked hayate’s with a random punch so I have to pay attention to the timing to link them (and I start over if I drop the link). I split these up between p1 and p2 side of the screen so I can do either.
[]I don’t usually practice Orochi since the movement is just a backwards Hayate, though when I do I usually just space myself at fullscreen and orochi over and over until I’ve inched forward enough that it connects with the dummy (counting is boring), then do it again the other direction.
[]Karas are similar - I push the dummy to the corner, then kara them over and over with HK until they pass the red line down the middle of the stage. I use HK so that, should I screw up execution and just s.HK them, I’ll kick them about half the screen away and add about 4 - 5 more karas to the rep. I then push them to the other corner and do it the other direction.
[]Fukiages I count out 25 - 50 like hayate’s, and just use LP Fuki since that’s the preferred AA one so it’s the one I would want to have as a reflex. This is probably my weakest execution in training, because I often will bump the stick up just enough that f,d,df turns into f,d,df,f. Trying to learn to count the stick clicks and cling to the corner of my gate to improve on this.
[]Tsurugi’s I have a few methods I use to practice. The basic is similar to Hayate - I jump up and perform a random kick 50 - 100 times, split between sides. Either that, or I’ll jump back and forth over the dummy doing LK hayate so I have to keep changing the direction I do the QCB in. I also notice that my tsurugi’s are usually much later in execution than the better players I see, so I practice inputting it as fast as I can to get it to execute sooner into the jump (since if I wait until the descent to execute, I figure I’m giving too much time to react).
[/LIST]
[]Once I’m done with these, I will usually record some basics into the dummy, like…
[LIST]
[]Spamming hadoukens from 3/4ths screen so I can practice absorbing with FA, then dashing and tsurugi’ing. Do this 10 - 20 times, then switch sides and go again.
[]Command grabs so I can practice jumping up and tsurugi’ing (grapplers terrify the crap outta me, I don’t know why. I feel like a rescue kitten, every time I see one I just run for a corner and try to never get in touching range. Really trying to break that habit).
[]DP’s at various distances so I can practice feeling out which fuki to use to reach them on the way down.
[]various j.X so I can practice c.HK or j.HP
[/LIST]
[]Finally, as a cooldown I’ll just put them on auto block and play with combos or more advanced tactics:
[LIST]
[]FA2, dash, c.LP, s.MP xx EX Hayate/Orochi (as mentioned above)
[]s.MP, s.MP xx EX Hayate
[]c.LP, c.LP, s.MP
[]Kara-kara and tk.Kara
[]Various normals leading into Kara xx Tanden Renki, Seichusan Godanzuki
[]Meaty orochis after knockdown
[]EX fuki juggling
[/LIST]
[]Note, I don’t count out these, I just sort of do them until they’re coming out reliably then move onto something else from the list. I’d assume these sorts of techniques are best learned against an actual opponent instead of a training dummy.
[/LIST]
… Crap, another long one, sorry. I’ll get those videos listed as soon as I get some food back in my fridge.
Thanks again, everyone.
[LIST]
[]
[LIST]
[]c.LP will never combo into s.MP unless meaty somehow. Check out the “AE Combos” section, specifically “AE BnB Hit confirms.” Those are the ones to practice.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
I will be honest with your videos. Make sure you post them in the video thread.
Edit: Gah, I’m stuck in bullets!
Since you understand what your basic goal is with Makoto, go to the OPs and look up the various meaty, safe jump, ect that you can do when your opponent is waking up. I swear, you’ll start to win a lot more if you keep your opponent laid out.
But honestly, after looking at your list, it sounds like you’re introducing way too many elements into your training. I’m willing to bet you’re not using half that stuff effectively in a real match. My suggestion is to pick 3 things to work on then start applying them online. When you feel like you can do the stuff you practiced when someone is trying to beat your face in, add in another 3. Rinse and repeat.
Here’s something I typed up for someone else, but it’s really applicable to anyone who’s starting out with her.
IMO, this is the most BASIC, effective gameplan you can have with Makoto
Basic String Mixup:
-s.MP->EX-Oroshi / s.MP->c.HP
Here is your most solid close range poke/pressure tool followed with your overhead or sweep. Best of all, both these finishers are untechable knockdowns.
-s.MP, s.MP->Special (the two normals are 1 frame links. it takes some practice)
Set-ups after Knockdown:
EX-Orosh or b+Throw:
-forward dash x3 then:
**meaty s.MP, Karakusa
**back dash if you suspect your opponent will DP/reversal
c.HP:
-forward dash x2 then:
**meaty s.MP, Karakusa
**back dash if you suspect your opponent will DP/reversal
(easy to remember, right?)
Safe Jump
-Ex-Oroshi, forward dash x1, s.LP, neutral jump.
The Fishing Tool:
cr.MP->(EX)Hayate: you should be trying to hit outstretched limbs or people that foolishly attack you with this Option Select whenever you can. Nets you a knockdown if you use EX-Hayate.
Movement:
-Important fact: Makoto’s back dash is 2/3 the length of her forward dash. Use that knowledge to space yourself accordingly.
-f+MP is great for moving forward in small segments.
-DON’T dash forward more than once at a time. This is of course subject to change as your game sense improves, but for now, refrain from rushing in.
On Defense:
-Hope you’re good at blocking because her defense is garbage
-EX-Karakusa has armor, so use it against someone who uses predictable strings
-Ex-Oroshi has invincibility frames
As I said, this is just a suggestion, but I highly recommend learning something like this first before you start moving onto Karas, Hayate Cancels, ect.
hey guys, just got back from Atlantic City with the family. Time for some games! Any way I recently made the switch to PC edition because my xbox is going to die. Xbox- more and beeter competition, PC- looks way better AND I recently decided to download some character mods. This is specifically relevant to this Makoto forum because the 2012 update will give Mak and additional 3 seconds on her super. Like most of you, I dont use the super, but knowing that this buff is coming I suggest we all start practicing it. Soooo back to the mod…I found this great one for our girl- her arms and eyes glow when she is in super! This gives me more incentive to try to use it more often:)
Hey guys, this would sound probably really scrubby, but can someone teach me how to do the st.hp, hayate cancel, st.mp?
I’m so used to negative edging the st.hp, hayate that now trying to go back to pressing the hp again for the hayate, then pressing kick to cancel it, then pressing mp is really troubling me.
So let me see if I’m doing it right: (press) st.hp (let go), (press) hp hayate (hold down hp), (press) any kick, let go of both hp and the kick, then press mp?
I’m trying to grind it out in training, but the mp never seems to link.
Any help would be appreciated. Oh and let me just say that the most frustrating thing is landing a karakusa, but due to lag, whiffing/ex up punch coming out instead of ultra 1…