I could use some hints against Bison and Seth.
Against Bison, i know the basics. Choose U2. Punish his flying with EX Hayate. Etc. But what about his poking. Is Mak´s s.HK against his kicks any good?
And Seth. When he comes jump-kicking from the wall, should i use fuki? If yes which one?
I used Guy as my training dummy.
EX Hayate:
I believe a first-teched (you can tech for a while, so first-teched is what I call teching ASAP) EX Hayate is 41 frames, due to 2 things: EX Hayate, neutral jump attack in the corner whiffs on first-tech, but anything at all later than a first-tech and it hits. Second, EX Hayate, dash X 2, MK Karakusa used to be frame tight in SSF4, yet LK Karakusa whiffed. Dash (17) X 2 + 9 frames (LK Karakusa whiffed, active for frames 7 and 8) = 43 frames, which should be true because there are two unthrowable frames when waking up.
I believe a non-teched EX Hayate is between 95 and 97 frames. EX Hayate, empty jump (41) + empty jump (41) + c.MK (12) whiffs. Empty jump, empty jump, s.HK (15 total frames, fully meaty) always hits meaty, enough that c.MP combos after. My linking skills seem to be off today … I can’t get c.HK or LP Hayate after, though it may be possible. If it’s determined if c.MP, LP Hayate, or c.HK is the max possible, you’ll find out if it’s 95, 96, or 97.
HK Tsurugi:
A non-teched HK Tsurugi is between 75-80 frames, I think. Doing a very low to the ground HK Tsurugi, f+HP whiff, neutral jump is very close to a safe jump. It’s really hard to pinpoint it because of a frame or two disparity in the Tsurugi height, and
the immediate tech timing doesn’t allow for any real mix-ups, if you ask me.
Fukiage:
It depends on if you jump cancel the Fukiage or not, how much advantage Makoto has. If you jump cancel, there are roughly 75 frames or so of knockdown before a first-tech. If you don’t jump cancel, I think it’s around 51-53 frames, from testing various meaties.
For non-teched … I’ll test that later. Somewhere in the vicinity of 120-140 frames jump canceled, and 100-120 non-canceled.
Thanks A LOT man. I am still at work but I definitely have some testing to do too…
Thanks alot on the insight robot lol. It’s sucks that he has such an abusive move but I guess considering how fast we can take him down it evens out? Lol
Hey guys I’m interested in producing content something like vryu videos .
But the problem is I have no idea where to start .
So how do I approach this should I pick a characters and specific set ups and issues around it etc etc? 
thanks in advance:D
prob a dumb question but do makoto bulids decent EX meter? i know some of her move involves around that so im just wondering
Well Oroshi and Fukiage buld a lot of meter on whiff. Looking at 30 so it’ll take 9 to build 1 bar which is excellent
Hayate on the other hand does 20 on whiff, 40 on hit so as far as meter building goes, Hayate is the way to go. Especially true since in a normal combo you can’t combo into Oroshi. If you are really loking for some meter, then block strings and combos are the way to go. All of her Heavy normals build 60 meter on their own, so a simple combo like j.HP, s.HP, HC, s.LP,s.MP, MP hayate builds about 215 meter+/-. So yeah, IMO she builds decent meter
Ok, so I did some testing yesterday, and here’s what I found:
note: I couldn’t get c.MP or LP Hayate to work at all. Those setups. the s.HK one works well though.
So EX Hayate, Dash x2, s.lp, f.MP, MP Oroshi hits meaty *if there are any gaps. *Done perfectly, the Oroshi will whiff. This setup is 95 frames total, so i think its safe to say that its 97 Frames. So calculating meaties and safe jump for EX Hayate non quick-rise wake up:
(another note-I will always start with 2 dashes and a s.LP because of the distance, just as an FYI. Also, the sLP is important because under some circumstance, it can hit meaty, so better to prep for quick rise. These are for when they are still lying down after the s.LP)
w=whiff
perfect meaty=hits on the very last frame
Dash x2, s.LPw, neutral jump whiff normal, perfect meaty s.LP/ c.LK
Dash x2, s.LPw, forward jump, perfect meaty s.MP
Dash x2, s.LPw, dash, s.MKw, **meaty s.HK **(hits on frame 14, and HK is 16 frames)
Dash x2, s.LPw, f.HK Feint, meaty LP Oroshi (hits on frame 26, and there are 28 frames)
I’m still working on these but do we have any testers out there? this stuff will be execution heavy but could pay off… They work… on paper…
If she is hitting the opponent she builds good meter (better than some but not up there with the rest of the rushdown characters like Guy/Yun/Yang/Cody/ect.) But she has a odd sort of thing that could be looked at as an advantage or disadvantage. She doesn’t really have any use for FADC in her combos which means while she requires meter to be useful she doesn’t use it up quite as quickly so it kind of balances out in long matches (but sucks for the begining of round 1.) The obv disadvantage is that she has very few moves she can FADC to make safer if it is blocked (Fukiage can’t be blocked on the ground, you can’t FADC Oroshi or Hayate, and obv not Tsurugi.)
So ultimately, she builds meter well, but she requires combat to do as Oroshi and Fukiage are pretty unsafe to spam mid screen (full screen it is okish). Sometimes if I am close to my opponent after a knockdown I’ll do a LP Hayate before moving in for the mixup to help build a smidge of meter.
? you can FADC both Oroshi and Hayate…
You can? probably forgot cause I use EX so much more than normal and it was 11am no sleep XD
Still, my point that she almost never uses FADC in combos still stands. I can’t think of a single combo that REQUIRES FADC. I think there is a Fukiage - Fukiage combo that can be made easier with FADC but it still doesn’t require it if you have the right timing.
@Mossad. The first two meaty setups work perfectly, can’t manage the other two.
Why isn’t this in the match up thread, along with the other info?
Anyway, I shall try to keep this in mind. Nice to know I was going at the match up wrongly.
While playing at the arcades though I think my heavy punch button was faulty (I hate feeling like there was a reason I was losing that wasn’t just me failing), it seemed to work whenever it felt like it…
I think they made a mistake in the frame data.
On AE Mook, it’s written that EX fukiage startup is as fast as LP fukiage.
Or, they made a mistake in the mook :x
I personally think it’s betweem LP and MP (between 8 and 12…should be 10).
Hello everyone.
I’m a new forum user (3rd or so post) and i’m a Makoto player (or at least try to be).
I’m not a very good player, yet i try to learn some stuff i see/read here and there.
I got some quick questions if thats ok:
Is it possible to cancel crouching MP into MP Hayate? I’ve been trying to do it, but fail. So i continue to do a crouching MP into LP hayate.
Im getting better at doing instant tsurugi however my opponents seem to guess it very well. Most of the times they do a focus atack and hit me with it.
Whats a good tactic to beat a gief that most of the time just sits there and does a lariat when i get close or jump to him 
Even if he fails the Lariat he moves away and i don’t have range to reach him.
Thanks in advance
You can do crouching mp into MP hayate (even at maximum range on c.mp) I suggest just opening up training mode and practicing it (maybe try buffering the motion during the MP animation if you aren’t doing that already.)
Lariats lose to c.hk pretty much every time. Try to avoid jumping in on him. beyond that I dunno too much about the zangief matchup (I just know I hate SPDs range lol.)
You’re probably charging the MP hayate. When you cancel into MP Hayate either negative edge it or hit it really fast. It doesn’t take long to charge hayate to level 2.
There is a ton of Gief info in this guide. You should seek it out.
Concerning just lariat though, it loses to pretty much any well timed normal or Tsurugi. ESPECIALLY HK Tsurugi. Here are a couple of things you can do to Gief if he doesn’t pursue you:
-slowly creep forward, until you are a little more than one dash away. Dash in and crouch block. If he lariats, you know he sucks, and he’s a lariat happy Gief. Punish with whatever. I go for sweep. FYI a GOOD Gief will SPD you anytime you creep into that range not lariat because laria is anti air and you are on the ground.
-same thing, but a jump distance instead. Jump in and don’t attack in the air, and when you land just crouch block or back dash. What you want to know is if he has the timing for anti air lariat down. If you are able to block he fails. Punish accordingly. If he does it early you can hit him with j. HP on reaction. He’s just throwing it out there, now. It’s likely he will try to SPD your landing or do another lariat. Jump back and immediately do HP beats virtually every option he has.
-neutral jump HK Tsurugi beats all of his non u2 options except EXGH which makes both of you whiff. Depending on your timing, he can block and SPD, but the window is tight.
-meaty Karakusa beats lariat. Ex Karakusa always beats non reversal lariat.
Just a few tips. Again there is a lot of info in here for Gief. Hit that search function Mayne
Made a fool of myself vs a Ken playing keep away and air tatsu-ing once cornered. I had to remind myself I’m using Makoto. Not Fuerte.
Thinking back now would it have been best to Fukiage? CrHK? What do I do in these situation versus air tatsu from Ken or just dealing with him in general. Just dashing/walking forward is easy to get them to corner themselves. But it’s when I have them cornered that I’m stumped now.
so FADC’in with makoto is a big no no unless the move is block…great i don’t like to FADC all y combos anyway so thats good to know. my question today is what the prefeard tsurugi among makoto players…i see that its prob medium version on the first page, but is each on use for certain situations like how shotos use mp.dp for anti airs and fierce for punish?