Now i dont know all the details about his changes, but from what i remember, hes losing his jumping fierce for some pretty decent upgrades.
I know theres a thread about this, but id like to boil it down.
the poke and the dmg buff is nice but I have to say it’s a 50/50 toss up since the nerf stomp is really really huge
I wouldn’t call the Ultra changes upgrades and I honestly wouldn’t call anything but the stun buff and teleport recovery decent. Well, and st.MK…
+Ultra 1 Damage Up
+j.HP active frames doubled
+far st.MK hitbox buffed
+close st.MP buffed
+cr.HP start-up buffed
+PPP Teleport recovery buffed
+Dive kick faster
+Sonic Boom recovery buffed
+Super invincibility, pursuit property buffed
+Ultra 2 recovery buffed
+Health, stun buffed
+Hyakuretsu damage buffed
+cr.MK active frames buffed
-Ultra 1 no longer passes through fireballs unless done from nearly full screen
-Ultra 1 recovery nerfed
-j.HP (limbs) removed
-Ultra 2 invincibility (hugely) nerfed
-Headstomps active frames nerfed
-Dive kick does less hit stun / block stun
-Hyakuretsu stun nerfed
Basically, Seth is a little better at footsies, can take one more combo, and does not stun in one combo anymore. His mix-ups are a -tiny- bit better because of the dive kick speed increase still allowing him to combo and because of PPP teleport recovery. Finally, he does a -tiny- bit more damage overall as well. In exchange, Seth can no longer make people come to him. It will take
a little more time to stun opponents in the corner. Instant overheads with headstomps are now character specific and some combos (apparently) no longer work with headstomps on certain characters. And all match-ups that relied heavily on j.FP are probably a lot harder (hooo boy, thank god Zangief can’t knock down with that EX GH…)
Well… I just watch a few videos, and i hate the new seth… I saw videos before, but i dint notice that head stomps miss after lightning legs on some charecters… Ive never had to memorise what works on what charecter befor and i dont plan to… With out head stomps my go to move is wrecked…
Im not buying ae if it meands a forced switch.
If they didn’t completely butcher stomps I could definitely say AE, but right now it’s just meh, 50/50 toss up.
i play seth on sf4 vanilla and all the changes hes getting make me sick, will have to drop him prolly
Vanilla Seth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Super Seth > AE Seth
Better in a sense that his offense is better, but because of the nerfs (especially j.hp) his defense has suffered. People just have to play him more aggressively than previous versions.
i always played him aggressively, but the lack of my head stomps make me wanna cut my dangles off.
the head stomps didn’t get changed to what people are saying here, it’s still possible to do all the same combos and “magneto” setups with the stomps because the only thing that got changed about them were the active frames. This means you ONLY have 3 frames to connect when b4 you had like a billion. Thus for certain characters where cr.hp xx jab srk, stomp x3, DK would work, or the smaller characters that required cr.hp xx jab srk x2, stomp x2, DK, the initial stomp after the jab srk must be done later and requires some acquired timing, but they still work.
Much the same, the “magneto” setups will require different timing on the characters it doesn’t hit within the first 10 frames (4 for the initial jump 3 for the stomps start up and the 3 active). Again for these characters the stomp will have to be slightly delayed, and proper timing will need to be learned.
the head stomps didn’t get changed to what people are saying here, it’s still possible to do all the same combos and “magneto” setups with the stomps because the only thing that got changed about them were the active frames. This means you ONLY have 3 frames to connect when b4 you had like a billion. Thus for certain characters where cr.hp xx jab srk, stomp x3, DK would work, or the smaller characters that required cr.hp xx jab srk x2, stomp x2, DK, the initial stomp after the jab srk must be done later and requires some acquired timing, but they still work.
Much the same, the “magneto” setups will require different timing on the characters it doesn’t hit within the first 10 frames (4 for the initial jump 3 for the stomps start up and the 3 active). Again for these characters the stomp will have to be slightly delayed, and proper timing will need to be learned.
as much as i wish you were right about that, im pretty sure your wrong. From what I’ve read and watched and heard, the head stomp hit boxes have been moved, they infact don’t work on some charecters in the corner after the lightning legs.
Have you actually tested this yourself?
If someone could clarify how the timing has changed on smaller characters like Cammy, then that would help greatly.
Yes, it’s the truth.
Wtf…spin kick stun nerfed??? Noooooo.
Definitely depends on how you played him in Super.
If old Seth as in SF4 Seth, then no, he is not better.
If you meant SSF4 Seth, well, its a wierd trade off between good and bad stuff, but the transition between SSF4 and AE can be a little heart breaking due to awesome stuff being ruined, again, but he got some good offensive oriented moves.
The only problem would be how to remove the muscle memory of Jumping back fierce against Zangief, and throwing the controller / Stick after getting counter hit by Zangief Headbutt.
Well well, those buffs DO look quite nice… I guess I’ll try the new Seth out. problem is, j.HP was my main go-to defensive move. I don’t understand why they didn’t at least keep it as js.HP. That would make Seth’s j.HPs work the same way as any other character’s.
I got to play AE Seth today. I was expecting him to be pretty bad but in all honesty I actually found him to be quite playable. I thought the loss of j.HP would be the worst part but for me it was actually the headstomp nerf that screwed me up the most. Ultra 1 damage is actually kind of decent now when you use it as a punish (Not so much when you combo after cr.HP). I diddnt get into any fireball wars with anyone so I diddnt get to test it out vs fireballs. The Sonic Boom recovery (although being only one frame less) is actually kind of nice. cr. HP does indeed come out faster. I have no idea how much stun they took off of the lightning legs but it is definitely harder to stun people if you use legs instead of SRK.
But to stay on track with the thread…
Obviously AE Seth isnt better that Vanilla Seth. As for AE vs Super Seth, I wanna say it depends on your playstyle. If you play a more rushdown oriented Seth then the buffs outweigh the nerfs however, if you turtled with Seth, then the nerfs outweigh the buffs.
Woke up and started playing AE almost immediately. Didn’t get too much time in the lab because I needed to brush up in actual matches. Well, now that I have actual experience, I have to say…Seth is worse off than I thought he was initially. Even from a rushdown perspective. The dive kick speed increase and st.MK buff are really nice. The health boost is a little noticeable and the stun is godlike (now I feel like I actually deserve it when I get stunned.) Outside of that, the buffs and nerfs are either negligible or trouble. cr.HP does come out faster, but this seems to only help with connecting from an early j.HK cross up. PPP teleport is NOT what I was expecting, it is no where near vanilla speed and it honestly does not seem to do much for Seth. The Sonic boom recoveries are nice but they still don’t do much for Seth. I suppose if you had trouble doing Sonic boom cross-ups, they are a tiny bit easier now. Ultra 1 damage is 380 now…and it’s really difficult to punish fireballs, as expected. Decent punish still. Honestly, it doesn’t seem like you should ever pick Ultra 2 now. Although I tried cr.HP a few times into Ultra 1, it seems like that still does bad damage. One more thing about the dive kick…while the speed increase is definitely nice, the reduced hit stun is very noticeable. It can be harder to combo and sometimes it just isn’t possible to combo anymore.
Unfortunately, nothing seems to come close to the problems new Stomps and the lack of j.HP introduce. For starters, you will have to relearn almost everything about stomps outside of a few characters combos. To make matters worse, it actually seems like you have to time the stomps differently for a lot of characters. Finally, many stomp combos may simply not be possible anymore with the new timing depending on your positioning, or you may have to drop them early to dive kick for maximum damage. Since you have to delay them so much, you end up carrying your opponent, so it introduces issues. The few times I tried it, instant overhead still worked (!) however it looks like this could be character specific as well.
Then there is the limbs (or a lack of them.) Honestly, this isn’t a total game changer and it won’t ruin your life with Seth. Still, its a real issue for Seth. First, the Zangief match is still winnable. He’s going to get in now for sure but without that EX Greenhand knockdown, you do have a chance. That was a relief for me. But all other matches that relied on at least occasional use of it are definitely more difficult for Seth. Especially Guile…and once you factor in that Ultra 1 does not punish fireballs, well…it really sucks sometimes. Shotos in general are hugely annoying because you really can’t do anything about them throwing fireballs at a lot of ranges anymore. st.HP will sometimes work but throwing it out at some of the ranges they can throw fireballs will get Seth punished hard. Sagat and Akuma in particular are much harder for Seth to deal with. I don’t know enough about the twins to say anything, but those two are definitely among his top five worst match-ups now. I didn’t get to play a Viper or Fei yet; can’t imagine what these will be like other than the fact that already hard match-ups getting harder.
Seth still rushes down, and he can still zone. Despite this, he’s definitely worse off than Super. His zoning game got hit pretty hard, some of his mix-up potential has been lost, and a couple of punishing options are off the table. Those are my (limited) views so far.
PPP teleport is god like. Overall better damage for his spin kicks, and you’re right on them after you teleport. I smell vanilla teleport shenanigans. No really, that thing is so fast. I love it.