LOL some of these nerfs are insane. Fei is the same character from Vanilla. Stab jab to sweep was used only 3 times byt the top 5 Fei players at EVO. EX rekka was used far more to apply pressue. Its -2 on block, you can back dash after the 2nd rekka. Other characters got nerfed and thats why he feels stronger. Guile delt out far more damage with his lp SB walk behind for a backhand HP. Fuudo’s Fei was a very balanced Fei. He didnt go Yun crazy with a bunch of counter hit setups or crazy mixup pressure with divekicks.
I dont remember seeing any Fei’s in the top 4 in last nights GC. Then again I had alrady left and went to home to sleep
I like how people complain about chicken wing escapes like it’s never been there before guys it’s been there since vanilla. Once again let me reiterate what other players have pointed out your characters got nerfed and they did really nothing to fei since vanilla. Rather then beating this character to death you guys should concentrate on the buffs that you think your characters should beat him. I remember during vanilla when it was fire ball meta fei long wasn’t that great. Now that it’s a rush down meta everyone acts he’s god. The majority of the cast got nerfed and any new tools they got was deemed worthless. And most fei long players can tell you that nothing was changed and that’s what kept him great. I guarantee if the meta was changed maybe fei long wouldn’t stick out. Good players have always kept the same strat when fighting fei and that’s too lame him out now that they have less tools to do so it’s been big pain for them so once again ask for your characters to be given more tools to work with. All the “new” technology fei players were given were a result of your characters being nerfed.
I have said the same thing too sir but members here seem like they just want to troll and post all kind of crazy changes to Fei. Very well said on your part but it will go unnoticed
i don’t know why they should nerf feilong, chicken wing loses to option select and roundhounse has alreday been nerfed which hurts in some match up like balrog, dhalsim, oh yeah it might be very strong tool against average players but not competitive ones, like everybody said, he didn’t change much from vanilla, the people say that they should nerf his dp don’t know what they are talking about, his dp has no range compared to a shoryuken or a tiger uppercut, can be safe jumped, get stuffed by any vortex character, dive character and unlike sagat, adon, ryu, and others u never get 40 to 50% with a dragon punch to ultra, and for those who want to make rekka madly unsafe or slower, this would just make feilong useless, because everybody talks about his strong pokes, yeah right but he cannot cancel any crouchin attacks exept jab and crouchin jab, so to get damage rekka is still the main tool, u cannot win with pokes like crouchin medium kicks or punch that can’t be canceled to do damage. I also want to add that everybody talks about his crazy damage, crazy damage only comes from chicken wing, or close fierce to special, but from crouchin jab or crouching short u get maximum 180 damage, crouchin medium punch to rekka only combo on counter hit, lot of chars from crouchin attacks do much more than this,and his stand jab is crap, it whiffs on half of the cast if not more. It’s the others that need to be buffed, because arcade edition has nerfed badly some characters for no reason.
you guys are setting yourselves up to be disapointed.
you should check the dmg numbers from some other characters with simialar moves to feis. (i agree rekkas should be left untouched)
i think only seth and gens dps are more damaging. gen’s isnt inv, and both chracters are low health. lol @ seths fp dp doing 180. most characters with 1000hp are doing 140max with a heavy dp
originally fei’s crmk was the exact same as the shotos with the exception of being special cancelable. theirs does 60 dmg now, and the active frames got cut in half
then look at similar normals to crouch fierce that have taken hits around the game. just about every single hit, far reach, horizontal heavy normal has taken a dmg hit. bisons rh, chuns rh and fp, hondas fierce etc.
to be fair, some characters shit has been left in tact, but they arent considered top tier, and no one complains about them. sakura for example
on another note, even if they just left fei completely as is, and buffed other characters numbers up, thats the exact same thing as a nerf to fei. so 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other. they could buff everyones damage up to fei levels, or just bring fei down to theirs. same difference. and i really dont want other character to get some of the stupid properties back on their moves. like shoto coward copter coming back or something
The problem is Mike, I don’t think they put Fei Long and Honda in a Vacuum and get their best team to work out the match.
What will inevitably happen here, is the double swing back the wrong way. They will come to the conclusion that … (not necessarily this)
Fei’s damage output is too high , his j.mp needs nerfed, Tenshin get’s scaled.
Honda needs, a better ground AA , Faster start up on Standing RH - now knocks down, Ultra 1 faster Start up. U2 back to Super version.
Now all of a sudden it’s swings right back in the other direction, and it’s counter pick heaven.
I don’t even know why they call it balance, look at Rose or Ryu for example? In an ideal world they would take the top 20 - 30 players in the world, run 40+ matches with each match up and then crunch some data.
My personal opinion is that we have too many characters, that’s the root of the problem.
i know. thats why i think they should just bring the top 2 in line with everyone else. if they do a mixture of nerf some/buff others, the results are gonna be random
The problem with that philosophy is, there will always be “Top” characters. And ban wagon will just go at the Top characters every time. Even if Capcom does an annual balance, if you just bring the top 2 down, it will just be a rotation of who’s top tier every year. In my opinion, I think SF4 series have one of the best balance in fighting game history. It’s not perfect, but to be honest, almost every characters have been given tools to play their game. There are only a few characters that need some major changes to make them viable in competitive scene, Fuerte and Hakan come to mind. A lot of the characters are a tweak or two away from being a very solid character. I think honestly they got Fei right. He is a solid character with a very one dimensional game play which makes him easy to understand but hard to master. I think most character should be refined to that level and we should be ok.
It is also hard to just look at the competitive scene to talk about balance. Some characters are just not well represented because not a lot of players play them. While i think any characters should know by now how to fight ryu.ken, akuma and yun because they are still a big percentage of people playing them.
The most interesting part about this whole scenario, is that if you visit the individual forums of each character, people are actually very astute with what should be done. There’s nothing over the top, just a lot of very slight refining which has obviously been thought out through match experience.
Then you visit the front page thread… my word…
Not every character needs tweaking either. I play Sagat as a second main, and outside the Fei Long match (the irony) , he’s almost perfect. So is the need to tweak to great? Does everyone automatically get changed… ?
ok so after getting familiar with fei again, im revising what i said i would change.
i still feel fei is a little bit strong, and i never really feel like im fighting a losing matchup, but i concede that my damage changes would be too extreme. simply taking 20 dmg off of every dp, and making some sort of damage split on mk dp would be fair.
i still feel as tho fei is too strong on defense tho. the main reason being chicken wings. ex should keep its inv and stay the same, but i think the normal ones should lose their inv frames. they can keep their damage. i dont know that i ever really get more than 2 hits outside of dp fadc in practical match situations
Feilong is fine. Removing invincibility from EX is stupid. There’s no point to use it, it’s basically the same as HK CW.
A ton of the suggestions in this thread would pretty much turn him into a pretty worthless character. Some of you guys have a very blindsided idea of balancing the game. Might as well revert it to Super so there are more bad characters.
Rekkas and Chickenwing properties shouldn’t be changed. They’ve been integral parts of Feilong’s corner pressure since Super SF2. All of a sudden people get hit with a few of these in SSF4 and they are crying to nerf it to the ground? lol. What?
If you reduce his blocked rekka pushback, it’ll just drag a lot of his matches out a lot more into time outs on the high end because the stages in SF4 are so long already. Unless Feilong can start dashing the same distance as Makoto, there’s no need for this either. His strategy does involve taking people to the corner and pressure handily.
To be honest, I juggled the though of nerfing MK Flame kick, but the meat of that damage is usually off MK Flame kick into 3 hits of Chickenwing, the follow up Ultra 1 doesn’t even fully connect. I’m only okay with nerfing MK Flame kick if that combo can connect into three hits off the Ultra 1 juggle to shift the damage there and it would require Feilong to have that extra Ultra meter in the first place.
Nah, just a general thing. Too many vultures out there looking to nerf his usable stuff. Someone’s gotta stand on this side of the fence and defend Jeet Kune Do.
I said this also a few comments up, if we are getting a damage nerf (which lets face, it’s going to happen), they better at least make 1 if not both of his ultra’s viable tools. Either that or make the first hit connect full animation. There’s nothing more frustrating than blasting through dhalsims Yoga inferno only for it to then tag you on the other side. Either that or make that ultra reach another half character.
This is how it is now. Go look through the other forums, people are saying shit like “Cody needs a better back dash in the rebalance to help with his zoning”. Instead of learning how to zone with what he has. Its becoming whining bullshit. Everyone wants their character buffed and the others nerfed, instead of learning their character and utilizing what they have.
The reason these games are becoming the way they are is because people whine like incessant babies until they get what they want. I play Higgins and he kicks my fucking ass every single day. I dont want buffs to the character I use, I am going to figure out how to get better with my character. This whining about Fei is ridiculous. He is the same character he was and hasnt changed. Instead of people learning to adjust to the changes in their character they are going to cry till they get what they want. The problem is 90 percent of this forum has no idea that balancing does not mean “requests to add skills to your character they were not intended to have”.
One guy wants RYU to have the same recovery as guile does on his sonic booms so he can, as he put it “fireball trap”. These are the idiots who are ruining these games. Most of the people here have no idea how to balance on their own two feet when walking, let alone a fighting game like this. The game is never going to be totally balanced and all games will have some fighters stronger than others. Deal with it.
