AE rebalancing- Death of Fei Long?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

agreed to a certain extent until the last thing you put in. “deal with it”, again it’s obvious that some moves are wayy too good for what they should really do compared to the rest of the cast his specials are all amazing. He’s blessed lol cause all his specials ACTUALLY work and not fail and can be used on a high based level. Some of the characters moves are just way too good for this game.

"looks as goukens tatsu, dudleys flower, thunderbolt, blanka ball still gets punished easily on hit and block.

Then I look at all of yuns/yangs/fei longs special moves. They are all very damn good! LOL, Sometimes not many notice it’s all in the specials that make a character. Any character can use a normal when spaced but when it comes down to the specials for what it’s used for, some of them are just way too good and works way too well making it easier for the player playing that character have an easy time.

“looks at dudleys short swing blow in 3s”, it was 0 on block all versions and +2 on hit all versions. st.hk into lk ducking was 0. On here it’s negative frames everywhere and all that good stuff. Saying deal with it, will make the audience go away and not want to watch it cause of the diversity will disappear and the people that want to win will pick the best and it will die down then goodbye potential E-Sports.

to get down to it, if this keeps up E-sports will never happen with fighting games cause of the simple fact people will run to the characters that are easy to abuse and shut down ones game with 1-2 moves alone and still have back up fire with other moves that are just as good aka those bad 6-4 and higher mu’s.

Strategy games and shooter games will take over E-sports forever. The only people who watch fighting games are the people who play it. The people that watch shooter and strategy watch it. Even I watch intense starcraft matches in korea and I don’t even play starcraft. Strategy games puts more mental pressure and stress then any game followed right behind a shooter game. A fighting game, you can play it safe with the best char and have this utmost confidence of winning just because you went to the strongest character. So yeah, it’s not fun to watch that so this E-sports for fighting games will not happen. The closes it can get with E-sports is 3rd strike. Everything else is hell no for fighting games.

EDIT:
I’ve done it all, shooting games, Major League Gaming, SBO, EVO, blizzcon, strategy games. Out of all the communities, Fighting games complain the most and will be looked down upon if it even dares to get close to E-sports.

Strategy/shooter games force the player to become better and to think of new strategies to beat the opponent on equal footing and taking over. Fighting games you can run to 1-3 characters and once you add in the equal skill will beat a lower equal skilled opponent just cause my character is better then yours. Face the facts, fighting games are very competitive but compared to high level strategy/shooters it’s still a baby.

Also if you like $$ the strategy/shooters do pay better then the fighting games. Also I didn’t even include madden.

102

Can’t wait for nerfs

103

That’s not true at all, games are about skill and decision making. I could pick Fei Long and Bullcat could pick Gouken and quite easily double perfect my ass. The best element of gaming is choice, it all comes down to choice. Personally in fighting games, I play characters because of the way they feel in my hands, the way they move and how responsive they are, and i’m sure 95% of the community do also, from those feelings you naturally work out who is viable and who is not. You don’t need to tell me dudley and gouken are shit, I already know this from playing the game. It’s the players own choice if they then decide to persevere with the disadvantage.

Street Fighter never has and never will have an entire cast (almost 40 characters…are you shitting me?) that will run toe to toe with each other. What people are clearly overlooking is that the interest and the competitiveness comes FROM the imbalance. If we didn’t have to learn, what would be the point?

Like noodes said, now that all of a sudden there seems to be someone that might fix their problem, everyone’s up in arms about changes.

104

Look at it this way, who does Fei have bad matchups against? Is it likely they will be buffed or nerfed? That is where you will stand after 2012. Best thing you can do is work on those matchups now, so you are prepared for the worst.

105

Ok I will concede and agree with where you disagreed with me but only to a certain extent. However the one thing about fighting games is a superior player who is a master of their main character will beat someone who merely gravitates to the stronger character. I am still convinced players win matches, not in game characters.

It is just like in a sports game, some teams are better than others, however you win those matches, like in madden, by devising a strategy to neutralize the opponents strength and maximizing your own. Fighting games are no different.

And this is coming from me, I am average, at best in SF. However I have never felt the need to ask for a change to my main or any character I use, I always feel inclined to figure out how to fix my own problems and figure out the strengths of my character of choice. I spend my evenings having people like Higgins kick my teeth in.

Now that there is a means to have things fixed, people want the easy way out, and simply want their characters tweaked to mask their flaws, and thats a shame, and to me is going to kill this genre. Fighting games used to be about strategy and learning new techs, now its about crying for nerfs or buffs so their character can play how they want. People are trying to utilize strategies that their character of choice lacks the skills and tools to use, so they want the changes to reflect that. Rather than learning how to build a strategy around their character.

I find it annoying.

106

Back story and/or image shouldn have nothing to do with with how a character is treated by devs. Everyone who plays SF knows that is a significant difference between Super Fei and AE Fei, he’s an absolute beast in AE, whereas in Super his beastly capabilities were harder to use and implement into different play styles. I don’t think he should be nerfed at all though, he’s just one of those characters you can’t be overly offensive when playing against, because his damage and punishes are lethal.

107

But this is because of nerfs to the rest of the cast, not a change in his design. The problem does not lie with him.

108

Yes, I know, that was my point. Fei is no Yun or Akuma, and it is insulting to place him with such cheap company. Fei is not cheap in any sense of the word, but he is very, very scary. Fine, leave him like that. Like I said people should just walk on glass when they play him and take minimal risks. In this sense, he is very beatable. I agree with you, he is not the problem.

109

And believe me, I use him, and I get my ass kicked on a nightly basis lol. It was just like vanilla sagat, who was insane. I was afraid to fart against him.

110

It doesn’t matter if Fei Long is still the same as in Vanilla, or if it was the other characters who were changed which made him strong. The point is, Fei’s very good, so either he needs some reasonable tweaks, or the matchups he struggled with before need to be worsened, or both. But there are 39 characters in the game, and small changes to them individually cause huge differences collectively.

It’s fair enough saying, “Nerf this, buff that”, but:

  1. The majority of people saying that kinda stuff can’t play for shit and thus should have no say in identifying what’s strong and what’s not, and;
  2. They have no idea, or choose to be blissfully ignorant, about balance.
111

People really don’t want to Mask their flaws it’s more like the moves they do, don’t work well enough.

Blanka ball, dudley thunderbolt/short swing blow/flower/ ultras that have 2 frame command grabs or crap range then not doing enough dmg/ Goukens ultra 2 and many other things about what makes gouken terrible/ moves that don’t work even if they did work would still be bad.

You get my drift but man, they need to fix some of these problems. I don’t even want to talk about juri’s moveset. her ultra 2 sometimes doesn’t even work when it lands.

If they just fixed the specials and some noticable errors on hitboxs and make the moves that are too good actually balanced then this game would be near perfect.

No one is willing to “deal with it” if there are other competitive games that are far more balanced then this game. They will have an excuse and run to other games not having to “deal with it”.

112

Just about every fighter I have ever seen has had some balancing issues, somehow it always works out that one or 2 characters stand out amongst everyone. It is a fact of the genre and hasnt changed in years.

My argument is for people asking to completely revamp the entire make up of their character to hide the issues in their own game or to fit a playstyle they want to employ that their character was never designed for.

What you are listing is the polar opposite of what I am talking about. You are discussing balance. Most of the people are discussing a total overhaul to make their character play like another one.

113

I think people really overreacts on the “imbalance”. With a game that has so many characters, one little tweak on each character will change the matchups dramatically. Adding to the fact that a lot of players just play whoever people say it’s high tier. I used to fear Balrog, Guile and Blanka in Super with Fei, now I rarely see any of them online. It’s still filled with Yun!

114

I really don’t think Fei is overpowered…if he is, why don’t more people win tournaments with him? Why don’t more people pick him?

115

I just started playing Fei cus i like hes style, reminds me of honda (was maining him in SSF4). Honestely Fei is quite strong atm, maybe even stronger that twins (which would make him the best character in the game) and he really does deserve a fair nerf but mark my words. Capcom will completely over do it and most likely they will make him utter shit. Trust me on that. Happend to my 1st main Gief, happend to my 2nd Honda and those 2 charcters were not as nearley as strong as Fei is now.

Its not gonna be just damage nerf, half (if not all) of his normals and special will be fucked up the ass.There will be a huge damage nerf too ofcourse.

Its nice to be positive (i sure was before they nerfed gief (not so much before they nerfed honda) but looking at things realisticly and Capcoms track record on nefing chars there is only one answer… Fei is done.I’m pretty sure he’ll be worst of than in vanilla or super.

Don’t even think for a second that hes gonna get away only with minor changes, you’ll be fooling yourself.

I’m not going to stop playing him tho, I enjoy hes style quite a bit.I just hope hes still atleast remotely fun to play with after the patch so i cound still enjoy him from time to time.
jiz.

116

:coffee: if fei gets a dmg nerf it could be…

flame kicks lk/ mk/ hk/ ex
from 120/ 140/ 160/ 200
to 110/ 130/ 150/ 180 … but that looks like Ryu dmg to me (except ex)
and that’s no good for Fei unless they want to improve his startup or invince frames.
maybe… change the startup of lk and ex to 4 frames.

1st rekka lp/ mp/ hp/ ex reduced by 5 each
from 50/ 55/ 60/ 65 (same dmg as 2nd rekka)
to 45/ 50/ 55/ 60
but… leave 2nd rekka alone
and 3rd rekka
from 60/ 60/ 60/ 70
to 60/ 65/ 70/ 75

this would reduce his “fishing dmg” but not “total dmg” and buffs hp rekka

…also a few key normals could lose 5 to 10 dmg.

117

Technically we’d be losing a couple of points of damage because each Rekka scales. (If we’re gonna be pedantic about it lol)

I need those couple of points man.

118

It seems that Seth Killian has a soft spot for Fei, so hopefully he has some say and keeps the nerfs reasonable for Fei while buffing more of the cast into… well, legitimately “complete” characters. I started learning Fei as a secondary a few months ago in Super, without any knowledge of (or concern for) tier lists, just to have a secondary that isn’t a charge character. Then after playing Blanka for several days in AE and being baffled as to how Capcom thinks that character should be played (Offense? Defense? Mixups? Useless overhead buff? All mediocre) I switched to Fei and have been scrubbing it out hard since. I almost feel like the calls to nerf Fei are because he’s one of a small handful of characters who are honestly right where they should be (I’d say Yang/Fei/Akuma/Viper/Gief/Sagat) and playing other characters just isn’t satisfying because they don’t have a clear plan of attack. Instead of nerfing Fei’s normals, I’d like to see someone like Makoto getting a tiny buff–give her a better wake-up game maybe, and then she’d be a beast without being out of control.

119

Fei also gonna get nerfed in a way that other characters are gonna get buffs the same way he got buffed in AE which was everyone else got nerfed lol.

120

lol… sure you do. and that’s why he’ll get nerfed were it hurts rather than over all dmg :bluu:

i’ld rather they leave him alone but if he does get a nerf :wonder: he may just get a psuedo buff somewere.

so rekkas… nerf 1st and really buff 3rd?
lp 45/50/65
mp 50/55/70
hp 55/60/75
ex 60/65/80
that should negate the dmg scaling…
also have 3rd rekka gain 15 meter rather than 10 on hit.
could have 1st rekka gain only 5 meter rather than 10 on block.

leave flame kick alone…
but i’ld like a 4 frame startup on one of them, and ex, if there was any nerf effect.
just sayin…

as for normal nerfs… and one pseudo buff
all mp types dmg reduced by 5
cl.hp +1 active frame -2 recovery frames so…
startup 4/ active 6/ recovery 23