AE Rebalance Patch: Guy wishlist

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Which Bushin flip do you use ? Light or medium ?

VS Cammy , I was wondering if guy does Elbow drop (let’s say at the vertical of her head or just behind) it would make the up-kick whiff , right ? Then with an OS Run overhead, we could punish the up-kick recovery ? and then even do Ultra1
Problem is that if cammy does not upkick => it 's kind of suicide but the reward can be good.

I had a question about safe jump setup . I only used the very basic ones :

  1. Forward Throw, jump forward, jump forward into mk or Elbow drop.
    or
  2. C.mk, standing HK, jump forward into mk or Elbow drop.
    And of course 3. the run slide, neutral Jump etc…

I am looking for a litle faster setup than the first one , because it does not seems to work against some characters (ibuki, akuma…) I feel like I am back on the ground “too late”. So, is :
forward throw, forward dash, C.HP, forward Jump into HK
from Streak’s video will do the job ?

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[LIST]
[] Forward (Neutral) Throw, Jump Forward, Jump Forward MK or Elbow Drop is NOT a safe jump setup.
[] Some characters have different wake up timing than the rest of the cast. In console Super Street Fighter IV, Adon got up about 6-7 frames earlier than the normal character in all knockdown situations. Currently, Sagat and Cammy both wake up one frame slower than the normal character. If I’m not mistaken, Ibuki wakes up one frame faster than most characters. Thus, you cannot use the safe jump setup I posted above. You will need to use this one. I explain both setups in their respective YouTube descriptions.
[] Normally, you cannot safe jump attack a character with an invincible reversal that hits on the 3rd frame. These characters include Ryu, Ken, and Akuma.
[] Remember, the Run-Slide, Neutral Jump safe jump setup will work on everyone who has normal wake up timing as long as he/she does not have an invincible reversal that hits on the 3rd frame.
[/LIST]

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Found this one against Cammy last night;

*Forward Throw; Forward Jump, stLp or crLp, Forward Jump into Mk or Elbow Drop.

‘I’ll probably be using this one from now on’. :slight_smile:

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Streak you can safe jump 3 frame reversals with Guy;s Safejump set up from runslide… the issue is that you have to empty jump it.

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That’s why I specifically wrote “safe jump attack.” :tup:

246

Thanks for all the clarification guys…
So is there any situation where this Forward (Neutral) Throw, Jump Forward, Jump Forward MK or Elbow Drop is safe or not ?

247

Nope that generally leads to a crossup(sometimes ambigious) or fake out, but you can beat out reversals unless they wait on the timing for it.

Though, Dash forward, x2 forward is a safe jump and if you walk a bit or wait a bit depending on character it can lead to an ambigious cross up.

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@ Tigris66

I made a post about 5 post up. Try it out and let me know what you think. There is a possibility that Cammy may be able to delay it, but test it out just in case.

249

We should probably have these requests better organized, A good reference to what i mean is in a manner the points are given on the Dudley or Cody board…

Anyway what about maybe tweaking the properties of run slide into maybe something like a higher hard knock down state that allows for limited juggle follow up options that could utilize the focus cancel to perhaps a HK Senpukyaku.? Or just simply allowing super cancel to super to be possible.? This was the first thing i tried out upon getting the game, it already looks like it should work…

250

They should be posted on capcom unity and Ono’s twitter as well. I hope the next location test provides more buffs

251

@xIROCx : thks for all the useful intel as usual :D. but still had no time to test that. o_O

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I made a thread in Unity in case any of you have an account there. It sucks that Capcom uses that casual forum for feedback but I hope S-kill checked this one out and talked to the devs. Tonight we will find out if Guy got the buffs he deserves. After that there may be no more.

Here is my revised wishlist for Guy.

Cr.HK safer on block is really important. I’ve compared it to all the other normal slides in the game and I’m pretty confident in saying Guy has the worst slide. Even on a far distance where you would think it’s safe…often times it’s not.

Buffs to Guy’s Command Elbow and Flip Elbow would be great as well. (Frame adv. on lp flip elbow would be nice).

-All Hozzantos being projectile invincible from start up to finish would be great since I sometimes use it on reaction and still get hit on the way which defeats the purpose of hozzantos. (To the guy who once said I didn’t time it right, that’s BS cause when you do it on reaction you can’t tell what speed projectile the opponent chooses, especially in close range.)

My Personal Requests

-Add invincibility frames to MK Tatsu or at least make HK tatsu a reliable AA since it does nothing else

-Increase range on EX Hozzanto and make it -2 on block. (Yun’s Ex lunge punch has lots of range, is -1 on block and has a better hitbox/invincibility and I believe it goes through fireballs so I’m not asking for much in comparison).

-Bushin Chain Throw Combo should add juggle properties so that you can combo Ex hozzanto just like regular Bushin Chain. Then Capcom would make Guy really shine for corner game which would make him unique compared to the rest of the cast.

Ultra 1 Buffs - One of these 3 would be great

-Make U1 combo mid-screen

-U1 should have vacuum properties so if you land the first hit then the full animation is guaranteed. It would be good for AA as well like Dudley’s Ultra which got buffed that way.

-Enable U1 to connect after a target combo in the corner and landing hozzantos in the corner. Lots of characters can combo to Ultra in the corner without FADC and even though Guy can do that with Bushin Chain, it scales way too much.

Ultra 2 Buffs

Increase Input leniency, so just make it easier to execute. In SSF4 it was good enough but in AE it became hard to execute, that’s why not many Guy players pick U2 in AE.

Most of these buffs are fair. I don’t need all of them but it’s my view on the matter and remember other characters got plenty of good buffs which means that match ups will be even tougher if Guy doesn’t get the right adjustments.

253

Guy
[Wall Jump]: Can now attack earlier after the initial jump off the wall.
[Bushin Hasoken]: Hit box on the last part is enlarged, making it easier to connect the full Super Combo.
[Bushin Muso Renge]: Command has been simplified further, so it is easier to execute now.

254

Well no hit extensions but the Wall Jump does give a bit more closure to escaping the corner easier.

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-My personal revised wish list for Guy-

Guy is a good character and is fun to play with in causal matches. However, for a rushdown character he doesn’t have much of a rush down. At least not like other characters in the game. In my strong opinion, Guy should be hands down the best Rush Down character in the game. When people think of Guy, they think of a Fierce Rush Down character who’s entertaining to watch and to play. Saying that, here’s my revised wish list for Guy…

  1. Running Overhead should be Safe on the last hit or be given more stun on the last hit, so that we can Link crLk or crLp easier. Viper’s normal Burn Kicks are safe on block and has High mix-up potential, why not make Guy’s Running Overhead at least partially safe on block which has Lower mix-up potential?

  2. Running Overhead Damage Adjustment. The damage of Guy’s Running Overhead is currently 100 damage for the first hit and 70 damage for the second hit. My suggestion is to switch the damage around. The first hit should do 70 damage and the second hit should do 100 damage. Alot of players who play this game abuse holding ‘Down Back’ way to much in this game. Rewarding Guy with extra damage on his Running Overhead is a great way to break the habbit of abusing the ever popular ‘Down Back’. Guy should be the anti-down back character of this game and would make this game much more exciting to play and to watch again.

  3. Crouching High Kick (sweep), should be Safer on block. I totally agree with ‘AlboShinobi’ who stated above that Guy has the worst Slide in the game. The truth is, playing footsies is harder with Guy than most other characters in the game, so it makes since to make crHk safer on block.

  4. Ultra 1 should be able to combo ‘Mid-screen’ like most charaters can do in this game. Since Guy can’t combo into his Ultra 1 mid-screen, this puts him at a big disadvantage against the rest of the cast. You can at least allow him to combo into the first Four hits with a damage increase added.

  5. Ultra 1 should do more Chip Damage. Do a Damage Adjustment to the first four hits of Guy’s Ultra 1. The Chip needs to be at least Twice what it is now. Personally, I would like to see at least 60 Chip Damage. Both of Yun’s Ultras do at least that, if hit in full.

  6. Guy needs more Juggles. Enable more FADC properties off Bushin Chain and Hozanto or Buff Ninja Sickle and Neutral Jump Hk as better Juggles.

  7. Buff Elbow Drop. Add at least 1 of these abilities please; 1. enable Overhead 2. enable Better Cross-up ability 3. enable Chip Damage of at least 10 damage 4. enable More Stun.

  • In closing, Guy needs to be a true Rush Down character and the ‘anti-down-back’ character of the game. I’ve been maining this character since Super like alot of other Guy players have. We’ve put up with alot of fustration over the years. It’s time to make it happen. Giving him little tweaks here and there isn’t going to change him that much. It’s time to make him who he really is and that’s a true rush down character.
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If you ask me; if both elbows were overhead and his U2 was a zero frame grab, Guy would be the new Yun/Fei/Yang.

I wouldn’t mind neckbreaker being forward+hp instead of f+mp, in fact i would probably be happy with it, but it’s not really going to happen.

Guy needs a better slide, and his cr.mp should shoot up at an angle like the Juri cr.mp (no changes to the hit/hurtboxes, just his hand going a little up would be nice, basically an aesthetic change)

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Damn this sites’ glitchy posting interface for losing my lengthy thought out reply. TL;DR version instead for the portion, that i can remember specifically what i wanted to address about it.

xIROCx

The flaw here is that you inadvertently just admitted that there was no flaws with this move by the wording chosen for this portion. 1.We haven’t distinguished which Elbow Drop they should buff here in this portion 2. they’ll probably make the assumption with the Elbow Drops, that they are one and the same, which they are NOT suppose to be. So lets assume that if we left it to the Dev team to choose which “1” of these should be selected (which i guess ultimately, it will come down to if these even get that far down the pipeline anyway), going by the current trend of ignoring most of Guy’s previous game play prowess, we’ll be left profoundly disappointed here by that choice unless we show them where their shortcomings lie. Which happen to be that the both the special command and normal command versions of the move from previous games was made to do chip damage for the special command version and hit low guarding opponents(over head) for either version. The fact that it does neither of these things in this engine will make options 2. increasing hit box for better cross up ability and 4. induce more Stun(once again vague suggestion i suspect, will ultimately gain us a not so useful change/response from them here. They may take this to mean inflict more stun to the opponent’s stun gauge. Somehow i don’t think that is your meaning here though) being next to pointless if these newfound attributes/options get circumvented by the Down-Back game as you put it.
Solution here is to 1st point out the differences between the two Elbow Drops, because now that i think about it, i don’t think they’re acutely aware of just how different they are; or at least SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Which may also explain as to why they made the mistake of giving it a normal move status, If it isn’t for the Intention of Ono’s vision of dumbing down the entry level for beginners and casuals alike by making these arbitrary changes across the board. 2nd request they fix their properties to that of which they SHOULD BE, before… We can actually see the full benefits of receiving option 2 and/or 4.

AlboShinobi

I can hit up Unity but If you or anyone else have twitter feel free to pass my suggestions along to Ono-san

258

Im happy with the changes announced, especially If it actually turns out that the motion for Ultra 2 is qcbx2 this would be amazing.

Things I still would like to see:

I would have liked ninja sickle to get something along the lines of DeeJays buff to his Hk:
Dee Jay [close HK]: If the** first hit connects it forces the opponent to stand**, and the 2nd hit is now super cancelable. Move is now -2F on block.
Just the bold part really, although if they improved the launch of the second hit to be a little higher/closer it would be nice.

Elbow drop after Bushin Flip to have fecking Chip damage allready. Command elbow and BF elbow to have a slightly better hitbox downwards and extra stun (hit stun) so they dont lose their effectiveness.

thats about it really.

Overall I think Guy is looking great.

259

Well hopefully now I can use Ultra 2 after a blocked level one Focus Attack dash forward. Guy is - 2 so the knowledgable players tend to hit a short or jab knowing this. Ultra 2’ll get them a bit paranoid.

260

^They should of never changed his Ultra 2 input, it was perfectly fine. ‘I truly believe they nerfed his Ultra 2 input because of the Yun and Yang debut’. Grapple moves are generally good against Dive Kick characters. Capcom buff his Running Overhead, make it safe on the last hit! Also it needs a damage adjustment, the first hit needs to be 70 damage and the last hit needs to be 100 damage which is the overhead. Cody’s Normal Overhead does 100 damage and is now Cancelable. The damage adjustment will also give Guy better Chip Damage from max range, which Guy needs. Capcom make Guy a better rush down character…