that match is bad. i dont think it gets better with any combination of the popular requested buffs.
the only thing that would make that match better is a lower profile on cr.mk and more horizontal range on yangs DP. it would not suprise me if that was 7-3 for gief in old AE
7-3 in a match where
all of Zangief’s wake up options lost to EX Grab,
Palm was active for longer and hit harder,
Super lead into 500-600 damage off a palm,
Super lead into 200-300 damage chip block string,
and U2 did respectable damage off FADC and meterless combos?
ok
it wasn’t 7-3, but i wouldn’t say it was even. It was definitely easier back then, but that was because yang was ridiculous.
giefs wake up still loses to meaty grabs. except for ultra. and youre talking about a bunch of metered options. gief still bullied him on the ground and jumped in for free. palms and chip supers wont stop that
I don’t see why we CAN’T use tourney results to show which character is viable. If a character simply isn’t able to place into top 16 in just amount all major tournaments, it goes to show that the character isn’t viable and that you aren’t going to be successful with him. If players like ACQUA and Nemo dropped yang / stopped planning since they aren’t able to win with him, it’s pretty OBVIOUS that you lot aren’t capable of doing it either considering the insane difference in skill and experience. I’m not badmouthing you guys. I’m saying that top japanese players who aren’t capable of winning tournaments with characters that have thousands of more hours of experience than you lot would mean that just about nobody would be able to consistently place in tournaments with yang.
I’m tired of the arguments about how yang fairs in X matchup and such. I’ll be ignoring people who continue to bash on our apparently overpowered requests. Say whatever the hell you want - That isn’t stopping me to request whatever the hell I want on capcom unity.
@ The other yang players who understand what I’m saying: Could anybody make a google doc? We’ll all add some info in it, compile the info and submit it first thing next week when the yang thread is up. Hopefully there’d be someone fast enough to get the post within the 1st or 2nd page so that capcom’ll read through it. Thanks.
Yes but Yang used to not have to use meaty grabs, which is a big deal because those have to be set up.
Yang and Yun could build meter safely, and they built a lot…so why does that matter? Still, got other things going on mentioned below.
If Zangief jumped in on Yang for free in AE, then Zangief jumps in for free against everyone in 2012.
If HP Palm being active for 12f (a move with 13 or 14 recovery in AE) that was +1 on block with a projectile hit box (and a feint!) doesn’t say “fuck your buttons” then I don’t know what does. Maybe it was the +3 blocked dive kicks with varying speeds and angles. Or maybe it was AE fst.MP’s hit box which actually just beat Zangief’s fst.MP more often than not.
I’d say it was 5-5 in AE. Yang was really that good. You could already see Japanese Yun players starting to make the Zangief MU look bad for Zangief a bit before 2012.
Also just say whatever you possibly can on Unity, I mean, overhead Bison st.HK, fuck that. Go for the stars, ask for everything and more
you cant use them dropping the character as proof because many of them switched to the best character in the game. yang could have been less nerfed, but as long as cammy is a harder hitting easier version of yang then they still woulda switched
also theres more that goes into tourney victories than how strong the characters are. as long as yang has hard counter picks, the chance of him placing will be low.
and that still doesnt factor in how strong the other players are. for example rufus wins all kinds of tourneys but he prolly isnt even top 10 in the game. so if one of the top 5 players in the us mained yang, id have a hard time believing yang wouldnt be seen in top 8s at least.
im not saying yang is really good. im just saying tourney results and top player choices arent proof that he’s not
Yang will always lose to grapplers that’s his archetype. The Gief match-up is 7-3 now and even in AE when Yang was very strong it was his worst match-up and probably 6-4 in Gief’s favour. The only thing keeping him it in back then were the active frames on palm, the slightly increased damage on his bnb, and the ex. throw invincible command grab.
In this new update I’m hoping with the buffs his grappler match-ups will return to 4-6.
It’s definitely not a match up in Yang’s favor. I think it more has to do with damage output and health comparisons than anything. Yang’s ability to combo into U1 is his main saving grace that leaves me convinced that it’s winnable, but a hard fight. Cutthroat at times. Believe me, I’m a Rose main, and if I can get it done with her, then Yang’s no different. Play the footsie game to the max, and when in doubt, backdash, teleport, neutral jump or uppercut.
We can use the information on this forum and make a response on capcom unity. However, as avid Yang Players, we should focus on his weakpoints and encourage adjustments instead of discussing 2012 ratio matches.
Rose dominates gief in the footsie game dont know what your talking about.
Anyways dont think gief is that bad but the real problem grappler for Yang is Hawk.
Guys this aint that hard to figure out.
More hitstun on dive kick. We need to be able to land more combos. The speed of it is fine.
Larger hurtbox on lk dragon kick. It whiffs wayy too much to be a trustworthy AA.
More active frames on Cr LK or more hitstun on it w/e. THe timing for 3x Cr LK to link is way too strict. Miss it by .1 second and BAM DP on ur fayce.
YES we need the old crossup with jumping MK and more hitstun on it. You can barely combo on hit.
Ideally, returning him back to AE Yang would be GREAT! haha but here’s my list.
super could be lengthened. i feel it’s too short for 4 meters.
keep the cr. lk as is. the links are just like timing sagat’s c.lk x3. as for range, leave it. Hurtbox is good as it doesn’t get under much jump-ins like it used to back in AE.
Dive kick could be improved, by increasing hitstun so that we can confirm off a kick hitting from waist up, but if nothing happens to it, i’ll be happy with that too.
Fix teleport glitch with st.HK after cs. MK ~ j.HP/cr.LP reset. (SEE ALIOUNE’S MATCH AGAINST FERDI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncQTdkgQBKA)
Lastly, improve the hitbox on his j.mk just a little. not too much though, the crossup game with AE Yang was really strong.
Nobody should want cr.LK to be +5 on hit so they can do cr.LK easier, it’s mainly for making cr.LP and st.LP a 2f link. And then allowing Yang to go into cst.MP with plinking. That also allows Yang to go into a chain string off of a low without too much trouble, though cr.LK, cr.LP still wouldn’t be a true block string.
Actually did cross my mind a couple of times to increase the dive kick advantage on hit though. At least enough to offset the recovery nerf.
I’m really curious to hear what Acqua and Kyoku suggest for Yang.
Yeah, cr. lk to cr. lk is a 2-frame link. I doubt that’s gonna change and if you can’t hit that then I doubt Capcom is going to help. If that’d happen though it would be great since you could do cr. lk to cr. lp more easily and also it would allow cr. lk to clst. mp.
My changes would be atm:
-Far MK: add one or two active frames to it. With these active frames it’d be a general improvement on that normal. I think it’d help a little with the Gief match without making Yang’s footsies too dominant.
-St. LK: change it back to 3-frame start-up. This gives him great punishing options and a fast move that’s bufferable to rekkas improving his footsies greatly. Also it’d be a damage buff since Yang could follow a crouch-tech now with two standing LK’s doing 165 damage.
-Divekick: remove the two added frames of recovery but also remove two frames of hit-stun the move has. Now he would be safer when whiffing divekicks but on block it wouldn’t be any safer. The reason I’d like this change is that we’d get back launcher divekick whiff combos and divekick whiff throw mix-ups. If they change it back to how it was then Yang would be too strong against fireball characters in my opinion.
-Cr. HP: remove 4 recovery frames from it. Currently it has 14 recovery frames, which is huge when you consider that after the initial hit there’s a 3-frame gap and 2 active frames on the second hit, which is something that could already be counted as recovery frames since the attack goes only upwards. Now it would be a decent poke with a recovery that as drastic but it would still be whiff-punishable.
-Cr. MP: lower the hurtbox of it with at least a third of a training stage square. Now it would be a move that could be used like a shoto cr. MK to dodge under things. He used to have this ability with his cr. LK but I think that lead to too many benefits since it was a 3-frame crouch-tech that was easily hit-confirmable into followups. This would give cr. MP a purpose outside of Sei’ei Enbu.
-J. MK: move the hitbox so that the strict cross-up set-ups actually work on everyone but don’t change it back to being AE level.
-EX Mantis slashes: make the leaping move Yang does in the beginning go a half a square further. Now it would be a great whiff-punish and a more consistent punish for Honda’s headbutts for example.
I think that’s it. Now he’d be just a more solid character on all sides without being too strong. I didn’t give him any damage-buffs but if I would’ve changed something in that regard I would’ve changed to damage on his launcher to 60 damage. Now his cr. mk xx rekka fadc launcher, launcher mk rollkicks would do 285 and with hk rollkicks 290.
This is the last list I do for Yang I promise. Lol.
totally forgot about that. good stuff
FORUM FOR YANG BALANCE SUGGESTIONS IS UP GUYS! LETS DO THIS!
somebody needs to message kyoku,nemo,666 id like to know what they want