I want to throw this out there, I’m sure I’ll get flamed like crazy for no good reason but:
Since Chun has motion based Kikoukens in SFA2, SFA3 (with A & V-isms), SF3, MVC3, SF x TK, why can’t they say okay… for v2013 we are making Kikoukens motion based? They won’t have to change her Super nor Hosenka. Doing this alone would change the landscape of her playstyle and considering I named off 5 damn games - it only makes sense! Don’t you all agree? Afterall I always thought it was weird Kikosho was fireball motion and Kikouken was charge…never made sense to me.
Ex SBK hits on both sides fairly nicely in SFxTk, though she can still be safe jumped just right – seemingly by dumb luck.
So with SSF4’s slight vaccum and SF x Tk hit boxes, that’d make the reversal a little better but still not a ‘good’ reversal.
I also don’t think it’d be too hard to make sure NO character falls out of Hosenka no matter what in the corner
Rufus’ Ultra fully juggles does it not? Because it has a vaccum on it and he can do it anywhere on the screen.
I’ve never thought this was too much to ask.
df+LK changes I agree wholeheartedly with
Kikoken I think is fine as is, same with HK Legs and damage on LK Hazanshu.
Faster startup on Hazanshu would be nice but not likely, and personally I think +10 damage on Headstomp is ridiculous. I would love for it to happen but it seems to have so many applications that it just seems unfair, especially if you take into consideration that Headstomp, when used in a juggle, hits three times. That’s a lot of damage to add on, even if scaled.
I don’t think EX Legs needs more damage, but I just want it to connect fully on all characters. Same with Ultra 1. If it can always juggle in the corner, or (even better) lock into animation on first hit, that would be ideal.
U2 doesn’t need damage buffs IF df+LK gets improved. If not, then I’d be okay with +20 damage on U2.
EX SBK being better is always welcome, I think.
As for Hosenka being faster, as others have said as much as I think I would love for it to start up in 6 frames instead of 7, it opens up too many punish possibilities that really badly unbalances her I think. I want Chun to be better but I don’t want her to be far-and-away the best character in the game lol.
in all seriousness, I dont think having a 6f hosenka is bad or broken considering you have to have charge in the first place. When considering sweeps only (I dont memorize frame data, so im only considering sweeps), just dont sweep her if she isnt walking forward or if you think she has charge when she has ultra, everybody changes what they do when the other player has ultra anyway.
Plus you have to react fast enough.
I love Hosenka reversals… nah really? (look below my avatar,haha)
but I know I can punish somethings that I personally simply cannot react fast enough in order to do it
So nah, I don’t think it’d make her broken either, especially because it requires knowledge and execution to do it, just like the Leg Loop.
EX SBK doesn’t need to be non safe-jumpable. However making it so it doesn’t get crossed over for free when people are NOT safe jumping it is key. Too many situations of people going right through it and being completely safe… even when it’s not during a wake up situation (I’m looking at you shotos). I’d personally rather give a vacuum effect than a bigger hitbox to make this happen (still punishable on block if properly baited). What do you think?
Speaking of safe jumps: Right now her super is not safe jumpable, but it ONLY hits grounded on legit 4f safe jumps because that’s the only time they’ll be in a landing state. It sucks that it doesn’t automatically ground opponents on hit for the other non 4f safe jumps, but it would probably be way too good if it did (not to mention just hitting the opponent in the air at anytime with it would be ridiculous).
It would definitely be nice if EX legs just connected fully on the whole cast, but I’m not sure what it is about them that explains why it that doesn’t do that (maybe character float times during a juggle like with U1, I dunno). All the character specifics have more to do with the other characters than Chun I think.
I did suggest b+mk being 6f startup as a buff a.k.a linkable and a better poke that would help her damage conversion and avoid all the character specific stuff we’ve been going through. It would also be a meterless knockdown and allow her to save that for more critical situations. NOT in addition to all that stuff on Emanuel’s list though… it would be a very powerful buff on it’s own.
But I do think the EX SBK and/or d/f + lk buffs on that list are absolutely necessary and a 6f b+mk would be great in addition to that (i.e complete her and make her competitively viable while not being braindead).
Re: Kikosho: +20 damage is fine imo and not going overboard regardless if d/f +lk gets improved or not. The ultra gives her some good mobility not always having to rely on charge and is just more flexible in certain matchups where she can’t afford to be locked in one postition, but it just doesn’t hurt enough unless you’re going balls out and starting with cl. hk xx ex legs -> U2. That just doesn’t happen often enough imo, which is why I opt to go for U1 in a large majority of matchups. I’d rather force people to play around that or try to link it on the ground than keep putting myself at risk for damage that usually isn’t worth it.
Edit: I’m also voting for f+mk kara grab included with no particular balanced combination of buffs. Just do it lol.
I’ve been pushing for a kara grab since Super. Even if they update it… and it’s the last update… and they DON’T give her a kara grab… I’ll STILL push for a kara grab.
Regarding the stomps - actually I’m the one who gave that damage - I don’t play chun li but I once saw a chun player doing a crazy combo with stomps, something I never see before (most of the time what I see is ex legs and hp combos). I understand that combo doesn’t do much damage so is not much used - so I said, ok, let’s give some damage so it would be more usefull.
But if you think it’s too much, I drop it.
Kikoken and HK legs were asked by Skatan. But if you don’t think that are necessary, then this is what I think:
I drop Kikoken and Hk Legs buffs, and the damage buffs for Hazanshu, Stomps and Ex legs
hk hazanshu needs to break armor
and 6f hosenka, do it. It actually makes a lot of sense to have it, it will balance out her primary weakness. She will still suck on wakeup, even with ex SBK buffs (that need to happen) but itll be more risky to knock her down.
Hazanshu is very important on startup…almost everyone who knows Chun expects Hazanshu.
Kikoken buff is needed as her startup is horrible so her recovery from it should be better.
I’m adding that her Neutral Standing MK should be a better anti-air- it get’s stuffed pretty easily (decrease hurtbox from the legs and head and increase hitbox on legs).
I’m of the opinion that if her st.MK is getting stuffed as an anti-air, it’s either being used at the wrong timing or a different anti-air should be used.
If you’re saying that st.MK should be her best and/or only anti-air (which would essentially be the result of your suggested changes to hitbox/hurtbox) I think that’s a different issue entirely, and tbh I think it takes away from the complexity of the character. Which in some ways is good, but I just don’t prefer it.
I’m not saying that her st.MK should be her best and/or only anti-air but rather less of a trade… I see why it gets stuffed and it’s not wrong timing but rather what the opponent uses…
I do want her EX SBK and df lk to be much better and I’m saying that the st. mk not be left out of the buffing scene.
The issue you’re describing is shared by similar characters like Guile, Bison, and Vega and that they have to constantly be aware of the dead spaces in their AA game based on what opponent and where they’re standing at. Its true in most SF games as well. I think its a part of design rather than just an oversight. Even in A2 and 3S where she’s really damn good, this is still an issue that Chuns had to be aware of.
