run away. jab back rolls build meter.
jump jab for AA when you can. throw knives. when you get meter, play cc games. you only have to hit her like twice before you can kill her in one cc.
I have a question about Birdie’s tick throw setups, I might need some expert Gief player’s input here as well as a comparison - since I haven’t played him much in this game.
Basically I setup tick throws with S.LK -> LP360. It’s fairly reliable, but I noticed that people have started to jump out/mash out/cc after getting hit by it once or twice and they begin to expect it. I usually counter by tossing in a C.FP after the S.LK as a mixup once they catch on.
Is there a more reliable way to land a tick throw for Birdie? In ST the only reliable way to stop a tick was a perfectly timed reversal, so maybe it’s the A2 engine? Does Gief have the same issues with ticked SPD’s? Or maybe it’s just another Birdie disadvantage that I’m seeing.
Well I’ve read about the infinite blowout range on Evil Ryu’s CC, but I’ve never gotten it to work for me. If the range is so large wouldn’t he be able to hit opponents from like half screen distance with Valle CCs? The version of SFA2 I’m playing is the SF Anthology one, with the 96/03/06 dipswitch setting enabled, just in case that might make a difference.
Evil Ryu’s infinite blowout CC range property was removed from the Alpha Anthology version of SFA2.
you can’t jump out of certain ticks by gief. I’m not sure if birdie\sodom are the same, but you can cc through them I believe. with shotos, c.lk, tick throw can be beaten by a CC everytime. Granted, a shoto normal throw may not be the same speed as giefs spd throw speed so that might be a factor.
i’m not sure which ticks are guaranteed outside of cc’s with gief\sodom\birdie but they’re are some with gief that i’ve tried to jump and just got thrown.
E.ryu blowout is fullscreen, so yea, he’s cheap. That sucks though that the alpha anthalogies took out e.ryu’s fullscreen blowout. Thats what made e.ryu, e.ryu. I heard maxstah talking about 2p e.ryu teleport not being as good as 1p e.ryu teleport but I could be wrong. Anyone know whats up with that?
Maybe one of you guys can help me with something that I’ve never been able to figure out…
Lemme give you a situation to to clarify:
You vs… say, Ken. You are at sweep range. Ken does low forward kick, and you activate Custom Combo. During the frozen screen you can clearly see that Ken’s low forward is fully extended and touching your character.
Now, most of the time, what happens is this : You try sweep, but run into Ken’s low forward, get hit, Custom Combo over.
However, sometimes you can sweep, hit ken, NOT get hit, and finish your Custom Combo… why?
Does it have to do with speed? (attack instantly, or later to let it whiff?) Or invincibility? (more meter?) or a combination of both? Something else?
combination of active frames and invincibility(meter) your custom provides.
Ticks in A2 can always be reversed by a Custom. It’s just another thing to look out for. The problem with Birdie vs. Gief is that his 360’s seems to have startup, so it’s much easier to get out of em as opposed to gief’s which seems to be pretty instant.
I think with E.Ryu’s teleport it has something to do with one side being able to cross up with it vs. the other side or something, since you when you teleport with him and you hit the edge of the screen you instantly recover from it. I could be wrong about this though.
Where does E.ryu stand in tiers?
^ isn’t E. Ryu banned in tournament play, though?
- anything I should know about a Chun vs Relento match?
evil ryu is good, valle thinks he’s better than normal ryu.
evil ryu is not banned in tournaments, and chun-li pretty much owns rolento, but it’s not an unwinnable match.
Why is Sagat consider so low? He defenetly seems much weaker than other versions but just want to know exactly why.
What are some good ways to land his CCs?
What his strong point? If he have any.
If I am very close and active cc causing a blowout, is that a guranted CC?
Any general tip one should know about Sagat?
Thanks
imo, ac’s killed sagat. Being able to walk into your characters AC range and waiting for him to throw that fireball fucks up his gameplan. He can’t zone properly like he used too. It looks like his normals and his mind game are the key to his game plan.
also the fact that you can cc walk through a fireball and juice him. His staple point is his fireball zoneing like from ST except A2 has options that easily counter his gameplan.
He has a horrible matchup vs ken\akuma imo. If sagat throws a high tiger, ken\akuma can roll under it and get in range. If sagat throws a low one, ken\akuma can tatsu over it and get in range. Not to mention the fact that kens ac+k has huge range. So if sagat wants to zone him, it has to be with normals instead of fireballs.
His normals are still good. Great reach on some of his pokes.
his cc’s do crazy life. I’ve actually seen quite a few variations of it but for the most part its just c.rh, tiger knee repeatidly then finish off with FP DP.
i’m not quite sure on this but I think if you cause the blowout with any character except e.ryu, it should be guaranteed. I’ve played against a good everything.
not a pro @ this game but I do play it daily and I get to see the majority of the cast for the most part.
very little akuma being played online though. I might start rocking him.
I have a question myself. Gief if dunkarific in this game. His spd ticks are god like. Espeically out of his cc. Good god, its almost impossible to tell what his tick will be out of his spd if you’re playing against someone who knows how to mix it up. The rough part is that fake tick spd will get you right out of that cc as an easy mixup.
Are there any general strategies other than staying away from him or picking him off when you can read those spd ticks? I hate the fact that you have to commit to the reversal and i’m just looking for a little strategy.
also, does his lariat have invincibility or just an extremely fast start up?
second tier is not low.
hes second because he doesnt have the reach on his normals from his cvs2/A3 incarnations and his fireballs arent as good as his ST old incarnation.
his strong point is raw damage, extremely strong CCs. weak points are the ones mentioned above and hes pretty slow.
I think reading the spd ticks is the main thing to know. Either don’t let it happen or AC every time it happens.
I usually try to get level 1 asap before I go offensive, that way if i decide to block then I can AC if it looks like a spd tick.
If you do something and you get 360, if possible don’t do it again =). Example I was playing against Giefrules and I knocked him down. I ran right next to him and crouched ready to do either overhead/throw/c.rh when he got up he did a Final atomic buster on me. From then on, I do not crouch right next to gief on wake up.
About your Gief question, I am not sure about the situation you are talking about. If Gief does lariat with all 3 kicks then he can spin through low attacks, if he does 3 punch then he can go through fireballs (mid attacks?).
When jumping into Gief and if he does a lariat (not sure which one, I assume 3 punch) then I think it is fast startup because I remember hitting some Gief out of lariat when they did not time it correctly.
I found that playing defense and a solid ground game is the best way to stop a good Gief player. I try to zone him out and never even give him the option of starting the tick cycle. Usually most Giefs try to land the tick spd after scoring a knockdown, so I try not to jump in to avoid getting hit by the punch lariat’s great priority - or even worse the anti air grab super. Shotos crouching fp beats most of Gief’s jump ins cleanly if you don’t have time for the SRK, Charlie of course has the LK Flash Kick, and Dhalsim is a Gief player’s worst nightmare. If I do get caught after a knockdown and I think a tick is coming, I either AC his jump in or CC after he lands.
Shoult, found any anti-Chun strats worth mentioning so far? I find my best shot is usually with Shotos or Adon at this point.
gief really gives sim a hard time in this game, it ain’t st, thats for sure.
chun destroys gief though, you just have to be stubborn with your anti airs, because if gief gets in once and lands like a fp spd, he just evened the match up even if you AA’ed him 3 or 4 times in a row.
for the record,ppp lariat has upper body invince, and kkk lariat has lower.
the reason gief’s jumpin games are so effective are his varying hitboxes/priorities you cant consistently anti air him with any one thing at any one range. and if he gets in once, damage.
hmm, for the record, I still lose to AWESOME chun players but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.
ryu vs chun:
quite tricky. S.lk beats out chuns low fwd and I think this is applied to ryu\ken\akuma. Not quite sure about dan\sakura. You read the opponent for low fwd patterns and interupt her with s.lk, KD FB.
ryus hcf+fp is KD @ perfect ranges to counter chuns normal game. Its really effective because KD’s give you time to set her up for something.
if someone is getting fireball happy w\in the proper FB range, you pacman her FB with a shinku. She’ll stop zoning less with fb’s and you can work yours.
for the most part, ryu can’t really out footsie chun. However, his fwd+mk will go over low fwd which counts for something but its not safe from certain ranges. I’ve noticed that if you decide to turtle it up, shell walk in and out of her low fwd range to bait you to do something. Most players have patterns when they start doing this and you can time when they walk fwd and catch them with c.mk, FB. Its not great life but it is footsie and you can catch her frequently with this till they stop walking around. Chuns walk speed is too good and seems to be a staple point of her footsie mind game.
I’ve noticed that once chun has established her dominant footsie game, she’ll get in close so she can force easy pressure with her normals. This is the only time when you can try to out footsie her and get her with something. c.lk x2 super, low fwd into KD FB etc…
and the best strategy is to just use the fucking clock. Take off time. See if the other guy can actually maintain the proper moves through out the entire course of the match. I’ve noticed that some chun players are really gimmicky and when you use the clock, you’ll be able to see that gimmick more and more and you’ll eventually think of a counter. Even when you use the clock vs a smart chun, you establish the mental game and you’ll be able to work options to land hits.
a big problem with chun isn’t her normals but rather her damn CC. Its chunky life and from what i’ve seen, it can be done with 1 button lol. Its important to win the first round. Its crucial. When the 2nd round comes up, try to gain the life lead and force the chun player to burn up his CC so when the 3rd round comes aroud, you have bar, she doesn’t and you can pick her off with your CC then fight it out. Thats probably the best strat i’ve managed to come up with so far.
chun vs ken:
much easier than ryu because you have some normals that compete with her range. Again s.lk is good and stuffs her low fwd when timed right and if she wiffs low fwd, s.rh with ken is guaranteed I believe. Establish the same type of FB game as you would with ryu but try to play from half screen. If she tries to empty jump or jump out of your dp ranges, s.mk will eat her up most of the time as an easy counter.
A big advantage that ken has over ryu in this fight is kens ac+K. It lets ken compete on the same footsie level with her to an extent. Esepcially when you have bar. She’ll be less likely to abuse footsie. Which gives you time to break her down. However, I have encountered players that know how to AC reversal so its vital that you AC on moves that she can’t cancel from or catch her during awkward footsie battles where a cancel would be impossible or very hard to pull off.
Try to win the first around to force her to dump her bar the 2nd round so you can have the cc advantage the 3rd just like ryu. This actually can be used against any character that has powerful cc’s like rolento or sagat. Its a universal strats thats not directly applied to one character but towards the characters that have great cc’s.
One day I was playing maxstah and he kept CCing through my lp DP. After he was done raping me, he told me that mp dp makes it much harder to CC through his AA. It hits twice @ 2 different points and cc invincibility only lasts for so long. Its not impossible to cc through it but its like 10x harder to cc through it compared to LP which is easier by comparison.
chun is really dominanting from mid screen. She controls it but she has to fight out of the corner in which case AC’s come into play and overheads with tick throw mixups. One of kens best features is that his damn mp throw will pratically throw them into corner and it can lead to winning around or good solid life to establish a life lead. So Mp throw is quite a good tool in this fight.
and from personal EXP, its almost impossible to cross her up. She already has a small enough sprite box. Then to add to the fact that she has incredible walk speed. Its almost impossible to catch someone who knows what they’re doing with kens crossup. You might land it once or maybe even twice, but never consistently. It still can be used but don’t count on it as your gameplan.
I fucking knew it!!! I tried jump in attacks from different angles and I just couldn’t hit the fat ass russian. Man, gief has some really good shit in this game. He can wreck shop easily. Thnx for clearing that up epsilon.
According to Valle (when he was on Alphaism radio), it’s actually impossible to anti air DP any characters with small hit boxes, like Chun (and I’ve had it happen to me, too). All she has to do is activate just before the area she’d normally be DP’d at and then hold down so she doesn’t walk forward and counter the DP on the way down.
Don’t forget though, shotos have REALLY good CC’s, too. Level 1’s with Ken and Ryu both do ridiculous damage and can be used as perfect whiff punishers, not just against Chun. Also, strong punch DP beats ground attacks way better than jab punch DP.
This is all basic stuff and I still suck, but eh, I wouldn’t be surprised if people didn’t know about some of it.
Some people reading this are new to A2, and maybe the only games they’ve really spent time with are Third Strike or CvS2, where DPs act a little differently.
Strong/Fierce DP vs attacks that hit low, but also knock the opponent further away, whereas you have more time to follow up with Jab DP. It’s less noticable than in A3 because people are more likely to do the ground recovery in A2, and air recovery isn’t an option.