I agree with Gief being in the highest ranks, at least when I see my Guy match up. Man anti airing him is a pain sometimes, even harder then in SFA3. There is nothing really good for Guy vs that splash. A few j.FP (possible airthrows) and some other more tricky manovers keep a total jump ownage away (anyway bad as I don’t like to jump much). He has also huge range and can lay down some real pressure. That Valle CC is also not bad for him and his close up game. -_- However insted of the horrible Guy vs Chun match up I really enjoy this.
Anyone have any anti-Rose strats for Gief? The bitch is killin me
Gief owns the shit out of rose.
walk, be patient. C.strong her jumpins. j down+mk into jab spd, d/f rh, valle cc, if she ever slides, free spd. j.strong to fuck with her anti air game, and drop down and spd her. once you corner her, spd ticks.
One matchup I’ve been having a lot of problems with is Gief v. Rolento. Even against the top tiers I can squeeze in some bullshit tactics, but Rolento’s knife + runaway completely shuts me down. Well, really it’s just the knife because it seems I can’t do anything about it once Rolento establishes his optimal range (I don’t even think I can PPP through it). On top of that, once I get in for pressure and use splash mixups / SPD ticks, he can shut that down by doing qcb kick escape in the corner, gets out without even necessarily needing to burn any meter, and I’m back to square one. Rolento’s jump jab and stand MP seem to beat my jump HP which already has incredible reach and priority against most other chars.
Any pointers on how to beat him?
Rolento is Gief’s worst matchup outside of Chun-Li. He quite simply can’t get around a smart Rolento’s runaway+knife+custom game. Knife lockdown owns Gief. You can use your walk to attempt to corner him, or occasionally early j.fp to air to air him. It’s difficult, but when you corner Rolento, you can beat him if you play an efficient tick game, with more anti throw moves than usual.
I thought Ryu was top tier.
He’s really good, just Valle thinks that other characters are better. Many characters are “good” in Alpha 2, which is why I like the game.
how about some ken advice. I know my footsies but my biggest problem is learning to how valle cc properly. I’m kind of just spamming it out when I think they’ll stand and i’m in c.rh range or as a wiff punish.
also, i’ve noticed that when you cc @ a certain time, your opponents move will come out but when the cc is activated, they throw there hands in the air and just get hit. Whats up with that?
whats up with being able to blocks kens mp\fp dp’s in the air? i’ve noticed that both versions increase the range of the dp so I started setting people up to shallow jump outside of my lp dp range so I can fp\mp dp them. It doesn’t get blocked everytime but I have seen it blocked before and I saw someone block it 3 times in 1 round once earlier today.
lastly, is there a guard break in this game? I swore i’ve seen like a fireball hit then a move hit right after that while still in the air. I’ve done it and i’ve seen chun do it quite a few times.
Use cc with ken predominantly as a whiff punish during footsies, or as a throw mixup.
“blowout” is what you’re talking about when the cc becomes truly unblockable, it’s dependant on the range you’re in when you activate cc.
Once the DP is airborne, it can always be blocked. However, a deep dp counts as ground move, which is why it is unair-blockable at times. And yes, there is a guard break in this game, it works pretty much the same way as it does in cvs2.
thanks for the input on how to use the CC. I’m starting to see it work more and more and some of my opponents are actually scared to wiff moves which is what I want. I should just CC, sweep, tatsu, dp x amount of times right after a wiff?
say they wiff a c.lk and I see it, will CC, sweep hit them before they recover? should I always open my cc’s with c.lk, c.rh to ensure that I get the fastest possible move vs wiffed moves?
what should you do if you fuck up a kens cc? I know about the overhead into a short CC and it works on people who don’t know how to get out of it but it seems like if you fuck it up and they block it, your screwed but I just want conformation.
could you explain this “blowout” a little more like exactly @ what range is it unblockable and is the range the same for all characters?
Blowout happens when you’re close enough, and the opponent is NOT blocking.
Think of it like an attack… If you activate from sweep range and the opponent is sticking out a low forward, chances are that you’ll run into the low forward and get hit right after activation. However, if you activate right next to the opponent while they have a low forward out, you will “hit” the forward with your activation, causing blowout, leaving them vulnerable to attack.
^ this is accurate. the only exception to this rule is evil ryu, who has infinite range on his cc blowout.
basically what middle kick said, but you always want to start a shoto custom with c.rh. Because of the “freeze” it hits instantly, they wont have time to transition to block regardless if it was in a valle cc situation anyway. Not to mention the initial range provided by c.rh. If you fuck up your cc somehow, or it gets blocked, the smartest thing to do is jab fireballs, but you at the very least will get an AC for your trouble most of the time.
thnx for all the help, i’ve already improved exponentially. That damn CC is rediculous behind proper footsie.
need an opinion on this strategy.
I’ve been working this trap strategy with ryu where i’ll dump 1 meter everytime I get it to throw fireballs repeatidly over and over. If I get a set and they’re forced to block, I get 3 lk tatsu’s which give me back half meter. With a little footsie, i’ll have 1 bar in no time and pick another spot to dump it @. I think you get like 5-7 fireballs per bar.
If they want to jump out, I just dp that ass and go back to building bar till I get to dump it again.
my main goal is just to abuse the chip and force them to jump which will happen. When you properly pick your spot, you can’t be AC’ed to my knowledge. I don’t see how they can AC you when your 1\2 screen with multiple fireballs in the way but I don’t really know this game that well.
I realize that using his cc properly is the real way to do it but i’m just fucking around with the game a little.
disclaimer: i may or may not know what i’m talking about, still pretty new to game, but here are my two cents
I’ve been trying to do traps similar to what you mention, and I really like using shinkuu when I get a chance because it forces the opponent to have to react in an unfavorable manner no matter what if you’re smart about it (like you said, either they eat the chip and you follow behind it for more footsies, or you DP / stand MP xx fireball to continue the pressure if they’re in the corner and shinkuu has disappeared).
If they start air blocking to delay the trap or mess up the timing you can simply walk in for free and continue with a sweep or high normal if they’re still in the air.
However, I’ve found that a lot of fireball-based traps in the corner can be recovery rolled out of so if you’re fighting a smart opponent you have to make sure to plant a few short footsies every now and then to stuff their roll, but not commit to anything too tightly, because:
if they LP roll in place (for example, after being DP’ed out of the air) and you whiff an RH then they can gain ground on you again, and if you commit to walking forward to meaty sweeping them as they hit the ground you may hit them or not depending on if they rolled, but you lose some of the space you had to maintain the trap by closing the gap in this manner.
Of course the worst scenario is if you try to follow up with another meaty FB / shinkuu and they fierce roll and get up in your grill, so what i generally do is throw out a few low shorts as it’s the safest option of the ones mentioned above, provided you throw a delayed fireball afterwards and try to maintain the guessing game in your favor when both are you are at neutral advantage.
edit: it’s a useful tidbit to know what can and can’t be recrolled in this situation. Shinkuu is a super so getting a knockdown with it is risk-free for you (supers and throws i think can’t be recrolled?). However, dp’s, fb’s and sweeps can be recrolled (although in my experience it’s hella hard to rr a sweep). Someone who recrolls an FB (fierce knockdown one) or a sweep can really make your life painful if you’ve given up enough ground in the trap to begin with.
Here’s a really good trick in the corner with Ryu, it’s so good, its almost not really a trick.
When you have them knocked down in the corner either do empty jump, c.lk x2, xx hp fireball, or really late j.lk, c.lk x2, fp fireball. It is very difficult to block correctly, and if they get smart and try to dp or recovery roll, you can either punish the recovery roll instantly, or empty jump and block their dp. When you add throw into this mixup, it gets scary.
With Ryu the main way you want to use fireballs are as pokes. Fp fireball comes out extremely quickly, and knocks down up close. You want to attempt to stand outside their max attack range, and use your fireball to shut down any mid range offense they try to establish. This is pretty difficult, and requires strong “street fighter” skils, but it is very difficult to deal with also in combination with his custom combo.
All decent players have a way of getting close without jumping into a dp. Just make sure you can handle the pressure of close combat. There also might be only 1 specific spot where your strat will work. So you will need to figure a tactic to get you into position to setup your trap.
Just a precaution, I’ve had people (actually just 1 person) cc through my fireball and start beating down my life bar like crazy. Be aware when you throw fireballs this could happen to you.
1 fireball is ok to take but when you start taking 6-10 firebalss roughly every 10 seconds w\ safe dp options inbetween, it becomes a problem. . I control the ground entirely with that many fireballs that you’re inclined to jump unless your character has some type of move that gets over fireablls. Adons jaguar kick, birdies super, guy’s flip throw etc… and in these cases, i’m still allowed to throw 1 and wait to react, do nothing and a few more are guaranteed. CC speed is pretty fast that I can do, fireball, DP, fireball, fireball just in case you want to try something. Also, the triple tatsu thats guaranteed when you layer fireballs right give you like 45% of 1 bar back which is amazing. I only got to play footsie till I get 55% bar and I go right back into annoying you again.
you can’t cc through that many fireballs. If I remember correctly, the CC activation invincible window is really small. Its possible to go through a fireball but not 5. The invincible window won’t last that long.
I have yet to play against someone who wouldn’t jump this strategy. The only real problem is throwing that many fireballs will eventually get you fucked but if work the line between good shoto footsie, CC’s for wiff punish and the CC fireball chip, it becomes really annoying.
however this is just 1 strategy. I don’t claim this is how ryu should be played but just a little gimmick he can use as a strat.
I think jumping into people is suicide most of the time. Especially if you are fighting a shoto. However this is offset by a player’s mind. If you can mess with their mind long enough to get them to scared to mount a counter, anything is possible.
The best corner game is a mix of throw/overhead/crouching pokes. Start with the poking a couple of times (1-2). This gets them to think all you do is poke. Then you switch it up the next time you have the chance. Start with a crouch near them, but use your overhead instead. Then maybe next time go back to pokes. Then the fun part is when you do this enough times they are to scared to do anything. When this happens I just run up to them and just throw (high risk, but satisfying).
Then again I do this as Chun Li, so I have hax speed. But the main point I want to make is don’t jump into people unless you calculate it to be safe.