If you have ultra meter you can over head into ultra [media=youtube]0H8QnVl1DQo[/media]
Im pretty sure thats one of the challenges…
dope thanks guys my problem is i dont throw at all i come from the original where a throw in the arcade got you sighs and bad looks for its cheeziness… and i dont mind the flack for my comment i cant stand throwing!! ive been thrown in the middle of moves too many times to count its retarded if you ask me… but will need to incorporate against the damn turtles…
if it hasn’t been posted yet just got done goin about 30 rounds against fei… s.rh stops the rekkas like money(same distance as starting the fight) and i stopped the chicken wing a few times with ex s.jk and j.tooth. didn’t get a chance to really try a reg jk in cuz of the pressure. will keep trying…hope it helps
if it was Dan would be there.
nope not there thats a combo… kinda like the last in the trial but modified to be way easier to hit very nice!!:tup:
two quick things for vega, jumpback and mp and jumpback lp are good options for stuffing walldives, requires some timing. I also stuffed a walldive earlier today with c. mp. I need to test this further for timing, but its a good start to making the matchup a little less lopsided. If we can shut down his air game, we can play ours!
real quick against fei you can counter rekkas using s.jk adon goes right above the first punch
Just want to shed a bit of light on Vega and Sim match-ups.
I’ve only been using Adon for about a week now. I’ve used only Ken since day one of SFIV, and I’m not even a hardcore fighting gamer, but so far, I’ve done decent when it comes to competition.
Basically, when it comes to Vega and Sim, play the counter-aggressor. It’s the same tactic I use when I play Ken. I’m typically (9 out of 10 times) a pure rush down that mixes pokes, focus, bait, and punishment, which I dubbed “Poke and Punish”, or P&P. When it comes to advanced or skilled opponents, I can’t really do that. They are more level-headed so they don’t get flustered at the barrage, and they read a little better so they can stop any punishment opportunities. So, when I’m in a situation like this, I’ll mostly rely on this tactic in the latter portion of round 2 and 3. I fill the rest of the match with being the counter-aggressor. Conversely when it comes to facing Vega and Sim when using Adon.
Vega
It’s true that Vega has wall techniques and chances are you’ll be flying over each others head a lot. However, that’s not the way to go when being the counter-aggressor. Now you don’t have to rely on being defensive, which I really don’t think it’s the way to go against Vega at all (though I’m only speaking when using aggressive-capable fighters). If you see a wall technique coming up, I noticed that it is frequently the one where Vega reaches overhead and does the slash-swipe,(sorry for not knowing the names. I’m serious, I only played Ken, and just now Adon, so I really don’t know anything of other fighters) I counter this with a FADC after absorbing the slash-swipe blow. Forward or Backwards is purely up to you, both are safe, but forward (or whichever takes you closer to Vega) tends to have more punishment opportunities because you’re closer, of course. This should be already in your arsenal against Vega, and a good way to integrate this into the counter-aggressor theme is by baiting him to frequently chase you with it (and you’ll be surprised how many Vega’s rely on that move and not the drill-like one, or the suplex grab). Do poke combos (block strings work too) or achieve an untechable knockdown. Before wake-up, LKTooth which will bait them to wall-technique chase you, and 6/10 times it will be the overhead claw strike. Of course, don’t overly rely on this because some of them just jump back to their corner and what not, especially ones who’ve been punished by it a few times. Other than that, only use specials during poke combos (HKJK good at finishing combo/block strings because frame advantage) or clearly open punishment. Keep the heat, but aim for your hits to be blocked because it really baits them to do a slide or the backflip kick which are punishable with just about anything that isn’t intensive. HP -> HKRJ will do for backflip kick, and substitute HP for LK -> HKRJ or LP -> LK -> L/M/HKRJ. This is the essence of counter-aggressive play. Create heat, make them think they have something to punish (especially Vegas), then punish their follow up. Of course, there are countless ways of doing this, which I religiously use, but it’s like a work of art more than science, and it’s easier by just doing in then saying it. What I can offer is mixing this tactic with FADC baits before wake up, empty jump ins and outs before wake up (especially if you’ve been utilizing MKCrossup, which is pretty safe if used appropriately), and various levels of JTooth (consistent empty ones confuse them). Not to echo, but to expand, this is the role of counter-aggression. Aggressive, but aim to be blocked most of the time, and force them to be aggressive and counter their aggressiveness because you already see it coming. As far as punishing with anti-airs, I’m not all to positive. With Ken, good-ol’-faithful Ultra 1 did very nicely against anything, especially Vega’s Ultra I (or any Ultra for that matter), which, by using these tactics, a very easy set-up. Not sure how Adon’s Ultra II will fare, but it’s worth a shot.
-Key Tips:
–After applying pressure and gaining a knockdown (techable or not), dash up (if you have time) before wake up and then immediately do HKJT. More times than not, they’ll try a grab or poke of some sort, which 9/10 you’ll get the hit. If blocked, you get a free grab, or you can simply neutral jump MK into a poke combo if you know any, or a RJ.
—Pay attention to Vega’s pattern and fit in as many MKCrossups you can. They enable good combo opportunities, which might inevitably end with a knockdown (which really sets Vega’s off balanced, especially if you try to screw up their charge by switching sides), and will ultimately keep them on their toes because they’ll get the impression you’re going to be aggressive from there. Of course, you won’t, go back to counter-aggression.
----Chase Vega’s handsprings if you’re close. From there it’s extremely variable. I’m not sure to recommend this because you have to be a fairly good reader to use this properly. Following the handspring is risky because there is so many options for Vega which makes it harder for you to decide exactly what to do. I don’t really have a problem if I found a pattern. So look for a pattern and try to counter it. But remember, escape after it, or sometimes, come right back somehow (most likely a HKJT, which I dub this tactic as Boomerangin’). My usual routes are a crHK (among many other options) if they are grab-heavy, a MKCrossup, or block then punish if it’s a backflip kick. If they use a wall technique, either chase for pressure (but you have to be a good reader and creative for an effective follow up) or return to the standard tactics. Lastly, don’t follow if the Vega is crPoke-heavy. His crPokes are very long and hard to punish, and to escape, once in them. If you can counter them, or if they normally poke once (Focus here if so), then be confident and do so.
-----CAUTION: I’m not sure if it’s all forms, or just one, or some, but a RJ is stuffed by throw if close enough. Everyone probably knows that, but just reemphasizing.
Dhalsim
You can utilize the same tactics on Sim, but not as freely. This one you really have to rely on being defensive, whilst being the counter-aggressor. In this match-up, I’ll rely on counter-aggression in the latter portion of a round, especially if I’m far ahead in health. I fill the rest of the match by being very defensive. Get far. Constantly neutral jump. Do a lot of repeat LKJT from far away. Sneak in a HK/EXJT which will hit if you’re smart when using it. All this will inevitably make Sim become the aggressor, just what we want. Then, cleverly, become the counter-aggressor to whatever he attempts. Most of the time he’ll try to fluster you with empty-gain teleports, then sneak with a teleport that gets him close to do what he’s planning, but you already know what he’s going to do (or hopefully you do haha) and counter it. Most of the time it’s a poke, stretch poke, yoga fire, or slide. Be smart with your focus attacks during this phase, they aren’t expecting sudden aggressiveness so they won’t properly stop it most of the time. Also, grab as much as you can. Even if it lands in techs, it will fluster the Sim. Constantly mimicking Sim will either cancel out (which will give you the chance to be counter-aggressive afterward if you’re creative), a trade in your favor, or punishment in your favor. So basically, be counter-aggressive and mimic are the general themes here. Lastly, during this phase of Sim being the aggressor, don’t be scared to poke. Use Adon’s good pokes (MP, MK, HK, HP, crMK, crHK [mainly good in this situation only]) then get the hell out of there. You can LKJT, back jump, or if you’re ballsy (which is good once in a while), nJumpMK -> throw, or just throw. Basically, make sure the poke combo is short and you quickly find a way out of being punished, because you will if it gets too long or you turtle poking distance from Sim. This isn’t foolproof, but it’s more or less a good template for fighting Sim with Adon, and should be a basis for your tactics. I think the best way to see its effectiveness is seeing a replay of mines against Sim.
-Key Tips:
–Be cautious. Very, very cautious.
—Always stay at least screen distance and away from any attacks. The only trouble you’ll get is mostly a well placed yoga fire. Other than that, Sim will get impatient and close-in. That should be the only time you can be close. But get far away again shortly after.
----STAY FAR AWAY ! ! !
-----The key to mimicking Sim, grab a lot. Chances are you’ll grab when he does, because Sim relies on it. If you get good at this, you’ll be landing more grabs then him. A well placed crossup almost guarantees this. Also, mix up nThrow with bThrow. Really throws them off, and gets you back at being a far distance.
------FEAR THE KNEE ! ! !
-------If you use this tactic effectively, you’ll most likely never get hit by Sim’s Ultra II, which really isn’t his best, so punish Sim for using it. 8D
---------BE CAUTIOUS ! ! !
So in summary, a common issue presents itself when facing a good Vega and Sim: You won’t be able to be a pure rush down or aggressive Adon. Which is fine. They’re expecting you to be that way. Force them out of this comfort way of thinking and be the counter-aggressor. Applying short bursts of aggression, in unison with proper follow ups. Probably won’t ensure a win 100% of the time, but will get you to round three, or possibly even the stakes more or less, that is if you’re having trouble with these match-ups. I don’t have much trouble against Vega as I do Dhalsim. I mainly only rely on these tactics when I do though, and that was the basis of my tips. All in all, it isn’t completely terrible match-ups, but things do seem to get rather clumsy when they come to be. Hope this helps.
I’ve yet to play a vega
so I have no experience
but are you sure focusing the wall dive is wise
if he does the FBA then fine it should work, but can’t he izuna drop you out of the focus startup?
i don’t know if it was mentioned somewhere before (didn’t read the whole thread) but why for god sake is JT not considered as a jump attack…in the alpha series i don’t think you could block it crouching.I think JK was always able to be blocked crouching but JT not
is this really intended by capcom or was this always the xase…don’t have alpha anymore so it yould be nice if someone could check this
@Xump
Yes, I already elaborated on that. Of course it isn’t wise to just focus on it because of that threat, and the izuna drop will most likely inevitably come if you do. However, my tips aren’t the sure-fire way to go, but should comprise at least 1/4 of your bread and butter against Vega. This isn’t the best way or the only way to fight Vega, of course, and I strongly encourage people to incorporate their own unique elements (because not everyone is a rush down fighter like me) into this. I didn’t provided these tips as a ‘matter-of-fact’ strategy that ALL Adon’s should know and religiously fight by. If anything, this should be at least experimented with whichever character you’re using, but ONLY if you’re having trouble getting through a Vega or Sim. I’m never really counter-aggressive unless I’m shut down left and right. This mostly occurs with Honda, Rog, and Blanka.
So yes, the start up of your focus is threatened by the izuna, but you’ll be crazy to think you’re 100% protected from everything at all times. And we can go on forever throwing out possible threats at that specific moment, and not the entire round. So think of it like a game of rock/paper/scissors or gambling. Of course, the way I almost guarantee that it works is appropriate usage and reading. Don’t JUST DO IT, DO IT WHEN YOU FEEL/KNOW IT’S RIGHT.
And again, you’ll be surprised at how many times you’ll catch the slash-swipe. This is because it’s another player you’re facing, not a computer, so they’re bound to stick to what they’re used to (AT FIRST). Pulling this off three times would be the average max in a round, which would ultimately get them down to half (or more, depending how you punish) health and near stun. Good odds for you, if you ask me. If they learn and don’t do it again in the later rounds, that’s even better. Don’t be distraught that they took a good element away from you, but now you have one less thing to worry about, ultimately giving you a little more possibilities to apply pressure or be an aggressor. Really, to me, it seems that SFIV doesn’t have to just be a work of science, and your creativity will benefit you in the long run, too.
Lastly, this is intended beginner to intermediate Vegas and Sims. Chances are, an advance/pro/hardcore Vega or Sim won’t allow this tactic to live on. If you’re also an advance player, integrate it loosely into your play, then alternate from counter-aggression, to whatever you normally play, to something else, then repeat. I say this because THIS doesn’t make you a good player. This is only ways that make sure you don’t get shut-down (which what Vegas and Sims aim for) so you’re not just feeling doomed, turtling, or back-walking to a corner and blocking waiting for your chance.
Quick Note: As for what Darrikson suggested, it’s rather solid. I utilize them quite liberally during a Vega match up and doesn’t fail horribly. Wouldn’t say it’s something I rely on, but definitely good enough to consider a ‘tool’ of Adon.
yeah I know most things are situational
I just wanted confirmation on the izuna drop
because it’s not always evident which attack will come out
and seeing as how I haven’t played this match up yet
asking you guys is my most reliable source
So, I was testing cross ups with the ground jag kick.
cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. lp, cr. mp xx lk jag kick will cross up a crouch blocking ryu every time.
Doing this same block string and pausing for a moment after the cr. mp then doing a ex jag kick will also result in a cross up over head, which is pretty nice, but all this seems to me as nothing more than a gimmick.
I’ve been meaning to ask this, but how good is adon’s zoning game. Obviously not as good as projectile characters but I would like to know what the board thinks of it.
Personally, I’ve found that I’ve had to do very little to get someone into the corner. Adon is like the boogeyman, people are just irrationally afraid of him. The thing is, Adon doesn’t really care whether he zones someone in the corner or not. He just wants to be close so he can mix up. If anything, having people walking away from me is the most frustrating thing, because Adon doesn’t have enough mobility outside his specials, which are not always safe and can be out-prioritized by a menagerie of normals.
Idk if this has been said but I might as well post it and if it isn’t right my bad this is my first game.
In General: I just mix up what i do with just empty jumps, specials, or dashing. People who poke i just block their strings and get away if they try to poke again i just Jkick them.
Vs. Guy: I was using hk.Jaguar Kick and getting him i was doing it on wake-up too it was taking nice life from him. If i used Jaguar Tooth it was just to space or escape from him .
Vs. Vega: I was vs my friends Vega and anytime he went into the air I’d either Rising Jag or Jaguar Tooth so he missed. Mostly all i did to win was blocking him and jumping up if i saw him do a low special.
Vs. Gief: crouching roundhouse all day, he really couldn’t do anything about it and i’d use air jaguar to trick him into trying to grab and i’d just punish the miss.
Vs. Chun: not much to do here I was able to trade but a good thing about Adon’s game is that Chun’s specials werent’ really getting me cuz anytime she tried to set em up i’d Jtooth or Jkick outta there. Jtooth seems to work ok on her too.
Nice discovery, greglife. If it breaksdown to become a gimmick, it’s fine. This is still a step forward in Adon research, and will most likely light a path to a JKick crossup that isn’t a gimmick. Well, hopefully, that is 
Regarding the bolded part: While I absolutely agree that Adon doesn’t need the corner in order to be effective by any means, it is hugely beneficial to have them there as opposed to not. With momentum, Adon can keep a decent control over the pace of the fight mid-screen. Once you have them in the corner, this is doubled. And you said it yourself–people walking away is annoying. Once they’re in the corner, they don’t have that anymore.
You’re 100% right about Adon not having to do much to get them there, though. One connected EX tooth will get them most of the way there, if you’re not in the corner yourself (and in that case, there’s a good chance the same EX tooth will swap your positions, putting them in the corner).
Hopefully I haven’t missed something, but does anyone have any advice on using f.mp? Is it worth much? I can usually catch people with it on wakeup, but I’m not really sure what to do afterwords.
Also, what do you guys do in Adon v. Adon matches? They’re so annoying, haha. I’ve found that LP tooth on reaction to their HK tooth works wonders, then wait until you’ve both whiffed RJ and there’s some ground to cover. Start up LK tooth, because he’ll certainly come at you with HK tooth again.
Over head is intended as a pressure tool in footsies, being mixed up with focus attack, due to their similar looking startup animations. The setup is block string c. lp, c. lp, c.mp, focus/overhead. If you land the overhead, follow up is really up to you. I find dash up throw works most often, as your opponent is just in shock over being hit.